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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 29 September 2013 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
| The promo version (stereo) of "Calling Occupants" has about a 1 1/2 second longer fade than the commercial 45. |
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Same thing on my promo and stock, Brian. Chalk it up to different cuttings for the CSG stereo edited version on the promo and the non-CSG stereo edited version on the stock.
The cutting on the CSG promo stereo edited version has an unusually high amount of rumble, which doesn't start until the beginning of the song. It is especially noticeable during the quiet beginning and the fadeout at the end (the stock edited version doesn't have this rumble issue at all.) Perhaps there was an earthquake underway when the promo edit was cut. ;) Unfortunately, with all of that rumble, the extra 1.5 seconds at the end of the stereo promo edit really gets buried in the rubble.
The stereo CSG cutting process consumes more of the available playing area on a 45 than a comparable non-CSG stereo cutting. The "Calling Occupants" CSG stereo promo edit is a case in point: the song eats up so much real estate that there's hardly any deadwax space at all. Not surprisingly, 7:07 album version on the other side is cut in standard (non-CSG) stereo. The deadwax area on the 7:07 side is actually wider than it is on the 3:59 side!
Deadwax edited version details on my copies:
Short/long Columbia Santa Maria vinyl DJ pressing: "A&M 12335 (STEREO) (SHORT)-S3"
Stock Columbia Terre Haute styrene pressing: "T A&M 12335S-T1"
Edited by Yah Shure on 29 September 2013 at 10:09pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 29 September 2013 at 11:59pm | IP Logged
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Ohh... The edit on the promo is CSG stereo... THAT'S why it sounds weird. I couldn't put my finger on it.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:26am | IP Logged
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Figured out how to fix CSG processing in Cool Edit, though. After reading on Wikipedia what CSG was and how it was done (which was simply shifting the phase of the right channel by 90 degrees, or some cases 120 degrees, but 90 was recommended), I tried "undoing" the CSG on the promo "Calling Occupants" with Cool Edit:
Click Generate--Filters--Graphic Phase Shifter
Select "-90 degrees" in the Presets window, and BE SURE to select "Right Only" from the drop down menu next to it.
Voila! The "Calling Occupants" promo now sounds normal. If you try it with another recording and it doesn't sound normal, try moving the bar on the graph to -120 degrees instead of -90, which was apparently used on some records.
I suppose this technique could also be used to create a CSG-processed version, if you wanted, if the commercial 45 used CSG, since they're never issued on CD that way. You'd just have to use the +90 preset in the right channel instead of -90.
Edited by Brian W. on 30 September 2013 at 2:29am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:21pm | IP Logged
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Nice trick, Brian! I'll have to remember that one for other tracks with phase issues.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:58pm | IP Logged
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I'd run across this same CSG fix several years ago on a Steve Hoffman board thread. That thread's example song was the stereo LP version of Cream's "White Room", which was apparently processed with CSG during the mixdown stage. The 90-degree shift trick worked like a charm. It's a handy fix for some of the vinyl Atlantic/Atco CSG stereo tracks which have only appeared in mono on CD.
I also tried it on "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" and other things that have certain elements purposely mixed out of phase (the first Moby Grape album, Michaelangelo's One Voice Many LP) but it doesn't work in such cases.
Brian: visually identifying a stereo 45 that's been CSG processed is a piece of cake. If you place your promo 45 edit and stock copies of "Calling Occupants" side by side, you'll notice a stark difference in the pattern of the grooves. The CSG stereo looks a heck of a lot "busier": the grooves appear to be deeper and you could swear that they're all colliding with their adjacent neighbors. It's as though the side has been cut super hot, with a tremendous amount of channel separation. It really looks like a rough sea. By contrast, the stock grooves are like a tranquil pond on a windless day.
And yet, when you fold both wave forms to mono and compare them side by side, the stock is definitely the louder of the two.
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Michaeldila
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| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 7:41pm | IP Logged
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hi. i thought this was a good place for my very first post! firstly, i remember
reading years ago that richard carpenter did NOT want to edit down "calling
occupants" in the first place. he was forced to. he himself said it was badly
edited for radio. i, however, like the edited single version. but it's not
possible to re-create it using the longer version as there is slight bleed on
the first notes (as everyone here noted). however, i managed to create a
slightly adjusted opening which, while not 100% accurate, sounds very very
pleasing. if anyone would like to hear it, i'd be happy to share. PM me.
thanks!
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
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Hi, Michaeldila. I saw your recent "single edits" question on the Hoffman board, so Pat must've fixed you up with a secret decoder ring. Welcome aboard!
Hmmm... new member... first post happens to be on a thread dealing with aliens.... ;)
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Michaeldila
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| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 10:33pm | IP Logged
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hi yah,
yeah pat hooked me up......but i promise...i come in peace :)
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Carpenters-"Calling Occupants..."
