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satchdr
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
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After comparing the CD "Hard To Find Orchestral Instrumentals II" version of this song to the A&M 1856 45 version and the Arista 4104 LP version (Barry DeVorzon - "Nadia's Theme"), I respectfully disagree with Pat's description of the "Hard To Find" CD version.
My ear did not hear any difference between the Hard To Find version and A&M 45 version (when I layered one over the other and listened with headphones) other than the fact that the 45 version is slightly faster than the Hard To Find version. The instruments and mix are the same and the stereo separation is identical.
The "Hard To Find" is not an edit of the LP version (at least as found on the DeVorzon Arista LP) because that LP version (1) does not have the guitar that appears in the left channel of the 45 and Hard To Find versions at 1:00, (2) has different piano notes than the 45 and Hard To Find versions at :17, (3) contains a clear wood block sound starting at 1:03 that is not in either the 45 or Hard To Find versions and has a clearly different ending than the 45 and Hard To Find versions.
Yikes! So, for what it's worth, that's my analysis of a song I really didn't pay much attention to at the time it was released. I think it would probably be more accurate to call the Hard To Find version "slightly slower than the 45 version."
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 11:09pm | IP Logged
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I'm not even sure why the DeVorzon LP would be on Arista when the DeVorzon & Botkin Jr. 45 was on A&M. But I think the reason that the 45 and "Hard To Find" CD don't match up with each other is because of the following: the 45 was created to be a longer version than the LP version but was done with 1970s technology (obviously) and has a poorly created edit; however, when the guy (Mark Mathews - who contributes to this board) created the "Hard To Find" CD version, he purposely made the edit point smoother so that it wouldn't sound like an awkward edit (after all, he had technology from this decade); thus, technically, it's not the 45 version and that's why Pat has his remarks the way he does.
BTW, I rememember hearing a version of Nadia's Theme on the radio back in the day that seemed almost the same as the "famous" version except the ending was different -- it had 4 extra string notes. Satchdr, does the ending you refer to on this odd Arista LP have 4 extra string notes on the end?
Edited by EdisonLite on 13 November 2008 at 10:43am
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MMathews
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| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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Hi!
thought i would chime in here. I thought this was covered in an old thread, but i can't recall.
Edisonlite is correct, except that i did not edit the master, that was done was Tom Daly, who also mastered the CD.
I had to go read Pat's entry for the song. I assume his description is correct but a little confusing, as it doesn't say why.
The LP version he's referring to is not the A&M album "Nadia's Theme", to my knowledge that contained the same edit that was on the A&M 45.
The recording originates from the 1973 A&M soundtrack album "Bless The Beasts And Children" and was titled "Cotton's Dream". Was later also used as the theme for "The Young And The Restless".
After Nadia's success and come time for Nadia's Theme single, they wanted it longer for the single so they made 2 copies of the master for "Cotton's Dream" and simply spliced them together, allowing the middle passage to repeat again. That was it. It just cut back to an earlier point, to make it run longer.
From what i was told, When Tom received the DAT dub of the master for Nadia's Theme as it was, it sounded rather noisy like it was made from a safety copy. It was all they had.
Since it was the song's first appearance on a CD, he requested the master for Cotton's Dream which was a first-generation copy off the original album master which had been untouched in many years. Sounded much cleaner and clearer. His effort was to recreate the exact point where they spliced it, but the original splice was a little rough, he and label owner Bill and some listeners who were consulted (i was one) agreed that it sounded better with the splice smoothed ever so slightly.
That was pretty much it.
In the excitement over finally getting that track licensed, i imagine Tom forgot to check the exact pitch the 45 ran. The focus was that it was from the original master for the first time. I also didn't really notice a big difference, but i wasn't listening for that, i suppose.
Also, there was no Downey forum back then, as careful as Bill at Eric is, the criteria of exactness wasn't quite up to the level of detail that has become the norm here, you understand. A slight variance in speed or a second or two difference in an ending fade were generally considered unnoticable details to most.
But all disclaimers aside! I wanted to cough up the first hand account of where that issue of the track came from.
Oh PS - an interesting side note about this song, and why it was so scarce on CD's at all all those years. Lots of re-issue labels tried to license it before that, but were rejected as "unavailable" and they didn't question it. The actual problem was the rights holders only made available the rights to the entire "Nadia's Theme" album, you had to re-issue the whole album, or nothing. But Bill Buster is very persistent, and made some calls to the right people and stated a very good case for getting it out there, since this restriction was keeping a great hit off the market for like, ever. Edisonlite can tell you as well, sometimes all it takes is some effort and some phone calls. Most labels don't bother past the first "no".
Too bad.
Hope this helps!
-Mark M
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satchdr
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| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
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This is all great information and why I love the chat board. Thanks to EdisonLite and MMatthews for taking the time to provide this detailed background.
And yes, EdisonLite, the Arista LP version I referenced does have the four note string at the end.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
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Agreed, great information, guys! Thanks for the education.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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Satchdr - interesting. Can you give the exact title and catalog # of the Arista LP? I'd like to track that down! Also, you referred to it as a DeVorzon LP. Were you just shortening the artist name (from DeVorzon & Botkin Jr.) or is Botkin Jr not included on the artist name of the LP?
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 10:48am | IP Logged
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<Bill Buster is very persistent, and made some calls to the right people and stated a very good case for getting it out there, since this restriction was keeping a great hit off the market for like, ever.>
Mark, do you know what case he presented to them, exactly? I find it interesting that once a track finally shows up on a CD for the first time ever (e.g. Rhino's Super Hits of the '70s), all of a sudden other reissue labels (e.g. Time-Life) start requesting it. This is very good for the master owner (and publishers) of the song - to make lots of money vs. no money. It also gets the previously-unreleased-song-on-CD back into the airplay market, so to speak, where all of a sudden digital outlets (like the '70s channel on my digital cable system, and the '70s channel on XM) play the song, and the song gets back into the popular culture and consciousness again. When a hit song doesn't exist on CD anywhere, most stations these days just don't play it. So that kind of info -- passed on to a "Nadia's Theme" master tape rights owner -- could be very persuasive to helping the owner change his mind. But I'm just wondering if Bill Buster argued other points, too (or even that one).
Edited by EdisonLite on 13 November 2008 at 10:51am
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satchdr
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| Posted: 15 November 2008 at 6:24pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite, here's the info you requested:
The album is Arista AL 4104. It is by "Barry DeVorzon" (no listing for Perry Botkin, Jr.) and the title of the album is "Nadia's Theme (The Young and The Restless)."
It entered the Top 200 Albums chart on November 6, 1976 and peaked at #133 during a 12-week run.
It contains the following cuts (all performed by DeVorzon): Jelinda's Theme; Winter Song, This Masquerade; The Dancer, All By Myself; Nadia's Theme; I Write The Songs; Theme From S.W.A.T.; Shadows; Midnight; and Bless The Beasts And Children.
DeVorzon dedicated the album to Nadia Comaneci and his wife, Jelinda (in that order), and credits and thanks the following arrangers and musicians: Harry Betts, George Tipton, David Foster, Fred Wesley, Harvey Mason, Lee Ritenour, Scotty Edwards, Victor Feldman, Gary Coleman, Dean Parks, Ben Benay, Jay Graydon, Tom Hensley, Tom Scott, Ernie Watts, Jimmy Zito, Tony Terran, Jimmy Getzoff "and a great brass and string section." DeVorzon was the album's producer. The engineer was Matt Hyde and it was recorded at Western Recorders.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 November 2008 at 1:09am | IP Logged
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Thanks for all the details!
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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This instrumental was on a 1998 CD release titled "The Young and the Restless Original Soundtrack." Its on Paradigm Records (also says CPT Holdings, Inc.) and was released when the soap opera made it to its 25th anniversary on the air. Contains 34 intrumental tracks. I must have been looking thru the soundtracks when I found it in one of the major chains back then. The lead track is a short version (my guess is it plays at the start of the program, runs just 30 seconds) and the long version (runs 3:22) is the final track on the disc (must be used at the end of the program when the credits roll). All the other tracks are instrumentals they have used over the years on the daytime soap. Last time I checked you could find it used for ten bucks or so on amazon.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 6:54pm | IP Logged
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Santi Paradoa wrote:
| This instrumental was on a 1998 CD release titled "The Young and the Restless Original Soundtrack." Last time I checked you could find it used for ten bucks or so on amazon. |
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WOW! How did none of us know about this? Welcome to the board, Santi! (Although, at 3:22, I wonder if it's a re-recording... that's much longer than the single.)
Edited by Brian W. on 18 February 2009 at 6:57pm
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abagon
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 7:54am | IP Logged
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I have the LP "NADIA'S THEME (The Young And The Restless) - Featuring Instrumental Performances by Barry De Vorzon and Perry Botkin, Jr."(A&M SP3412 U.S. issue). The title tune "Nadia's Theme" runs (2:49), and the listed time is "2:50" on the LP record label. However I don't have the U.S. commercial 45 of this, so I'm not able to compare the LP with the 45. Also I have a CD including the identical version. Unfortunately this is the out-of-print Japanese product CD.
"ONE HIT WONDERS" ("Polydor POCP-1667" Compilation CD, 21 tracks. Release in 1997 Japan. "Japanese Title "Dare ga ittupatsuya yanen")
-Track List- (STEREO except track 20 = MONO)
1. Come On Eileen/DEXY'S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS (4:05 LP version)
2. Funkytown/LIPPS INC. (3:55 45 version)
3. Maniac/MICHAEL SEMBELLO (4:04 O.S.T. Flashdance LP version)
4. Far From Over/FRANK STALLONE (3:53 Sound Track LP version)
5. I've Never Been To Me/CHARLENE (3:52)
6. In a Big Country/BIG COUNTRY (4:43 LP version)
7. Into the Night/BENNY MARDONES (4:29)
8. Breakin'...There's No Stoppin' Us/OLLIE & JERRY (4:33 Breakin' soundtrack LP length)
9. I Love the Night Life/ALICIA BRIDGES (3:25 neither the 45 nor LP version )
10. Disco Duck Part 1/RICK DEES &HIS CAST OF IDIOTS (3:14)
11. All for a Reason/ALESSI (Non Top 40 hits)
12. Convoy/C.W. McCALL (3:46)
13. Nadia's Theme/BARRY DeVORZON & PERRY BOTKIN, JR.(2:49)
14. House Of The Rising Sun/FRIJID PINK(4:40 LP version)
15. How Do You Do?/MOUTH & MacNEAL(4:04 LP version)
16. One Tin Soldier/COVEN (3:11 Non Warner hit version)
17. Toast And Marmalade For Tea/TIN TIN (2:22)
18. Montego Bay/BOBBY BLOOM (2:31 neither the 45 nor LP version)
19. Fire/CRAZY WORLD OF ARTHUR BROWN (2:53)
20. Manchester & Liverpool/PINKY & THE FELLAS (Non Top 40 hits)
21. A Walk In The Black Forest/HORST JANKOWSKI (2:48)
--abagon
Edited by abagon on 19 February 2009 at 7:56am
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 8:26am | IP Logged
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Looks like a wonderful collection of songs, Abagon! Too bad many are LP or 'neither' versions. I'd pay big bucks for that CD if it contained proper 45 versions!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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I bought that CD back in 1997 just to get "Nadia's Theme". At the time, it was the only CD I knew of [worldwide] that had the song.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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I was also glad to get the LP version of "How Do You Do" on this CD. Though the song was the 3rd 45 I ever bought, this is a case where I prefer the album version - because of the dynamics, and the more abrupt back-and-forth-between-female-and-male shifts that are found in the album version.
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 12:08pm | IP Logged
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To EdisonLite:
Same reason why I purchased the soundtrack CD back then. I know this version is longer than my commercial vinyl 45 (and the Eric Records CD), but since I do not have the vinyl LP releases (either the A&M soundtrack or the later Arista release) I don't know if that is what is on this disc. Has anyone timed the track from their vinyl album?
Edited by Santi Paradoa on 20 February 2009 at 6:56am
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 2:43pm | IP Logged
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abagon wrote:
"ONE HIT WONDERS" ("Polydor POCP-1667" Compilation CD, 21 tracks. Release in 1997 Japan. "Japanese Title "Dare ga ittupatsuya yanen")
21. A Walk In The Black Forest/HORST JANKOWSKI (2:48)
--abagon |
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Abagon and/or Gordon, is "A Walk in the Black Forest" stereo or mono on this CD?
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abagon
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 11:50pm | IP Logged
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Thank you for the question, Brian W. "A Walk in the Black Forest" is stereo.
For the hit tune "Nadia's Theme". I have a question.
Is the parent LP the following item or another one? Does anyone know about this? Thanks.
"NADIA'S THEME (The Young And The Restless) - Featuring Instrumental Performances by Barry De Vorzon and Perry Botkin, Jr."(A&M SP3412 U.S. issue).
This LP cover has the "1976"(year) description.
--abagon
Edited by abagon on 19 February 2009 at 11:51pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 February 2009 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
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The Young And The Restless soundtrack on Paradigm Records does contain the song "Nadia's Theme" or "Theme From The Young And The Restless" but it is not performed by Barry DeVorzon and Perry Botkin. The liner notes give credit to them as composers but the actual performance credit is given to the "Sinfonia Of London".
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 22 February 2009 at 8:19pm | IP Logged
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The London Symphony Orchestra? I guess it's the same orchestra that performed Star Wars a year late.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Nadia’s Theme - Barry DeVorzon
