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Smokin' TomGary
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 1:17pm | IP Logged
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The db entry for Hip-O B00007082-02 should include a notation of "channels reversed" i.e. vocals on left instead of right channel.
Entry for EMI CDP-581128 should include a notation that the instruments and vocals are delayed across both channels, the vocals are not solely in the right channel. Similar production on Jonathan King's "Everyone's Gone To The Moon" or Five Americans "Western Union".
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 07 September 2013 at 8:59am | IP Logged
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It is my policy not to mention channel reversal primarily because of the time consuming effort to cross check all entries in the database and continuing on into the future for all new database entries which would have to be checked against the original vinyl source.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 08 September 2013 at 4:06am | IP Logged
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I agree with Pat that a channel reversal is not really worth documenting in
the database. I do however, like to know if a song is a stereo remix. With
"Bus Stop" and a few other Hollies tracks, they were remixed, I believe in
1993 for the 30th Anniversary Collection. It is likely this version to which
Smokin' TomGary refers as being the "vocals are delayed across both
channels" version. Not being a fan of "vocals left and music right stereo" (or
the reverse), I like it when songs are remixed to sound better in stereo, as in
the case with these Hollies tracks (that were not given good stereo mixes in
the '60s). I personally would like to see all remixes indicated as such in the
database (there are many that are already), but I do know that task would
require
much effort.
Edited by davidclark on 08 September 2013 at 4:09am
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Smokin' TomGary
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| Posted: 08 September 2013 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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I advise caution with the word "remix". I think most would interpret that with a different mix of portions of the song (different vocal, speed, instrument and/or effects) which is really a different version of the song.
In the 60's when stereo was gaining popularity it was common to have hard stereo which easily demonstrated the stereo effect. Most modern mixes do not have that, but there are exceptions.
I do agree that some notation to a different stereo mix is beneficial and should be in the db.
Two of my least favorite annoyances are being in a restaurant and hearing one-half a song because it is the left channel speaker near you with the right far away and being in a supermarket and having paging announcements interrupt your favorite song on the PA system.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 09 September 2013 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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Smokin, I agree that in today's terms, the word "remix" implies something
different to a song as you state (e.g., the many dance remixes of popular
ballads). When discussing "older" songs, I tend to use the term "version"
when referring to such differences.
In addition, in the past the term "remix" was used to refer to a final
product having been produced (either mono or stereo) from the
multitracks. Case in point, when I listen to the studio talk on many sixties
hits on CD, the word "remix" is spoken. The word also appears on some
CD reissues for songs that simply feature a different stereo mix.
So, suffice it to say that "remix" on its own is too general a term, as its
meaning has changed over time, however we are indeed in agreement that
knowing songs are "mixed different" is beneficial to the database. "Stereo
remix" would be good for these, and I can surely point out a fair number
of them.
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JL328
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| Posted: 12 September 2013 at 6:27am | IP Logged
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I'd agree that a mere channel reversal is not a "remix" but is that the only difference here? I don't mean to confuse the issue, but isn't the stereo version of "Bus Stop" that's appeared on most CDs actually a different vocal take from the mono version that appeared on the 45?
I'm going from memory, but if I recall, the vocal takes are nearly identical with the difference best heard when he sings "Bus stop, bus goes" later in the song (after the 2:00 mark?). Is the version on the Hip-O disk the 45 version or the alternate vocal?
I apologize if that's off topic but the words "remix" and "Bus Stop" triggered this somewhat stream of consciousness response. Anybody know the details of this?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 12 September 2013 at 10:01am | IP Logged
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JL, the earlier "Bus Stop" thread has the specifics on the mono/stereo differences (no true stereo mix of the 45 version has ever surfaced.)
Back to the stereo "Bus Stop": In the case of the 1993 Ron Furmanek remix (and it is termed a "remix" in the 30th Anniversary Collection liner notes) Allan Clarke's double-tracked lead vocals are split between the two channels. This opens a Pandora's box of its own: on the one hand, it's as if you're being treated to front row seats at a Hollies performance. On the other, the very idea behind double-tracking vocals is to strengthen them, and by splitting them apart, they lose some of that concentrated focus. In a mono listening environment - be it a speaker channel-savvy restaurant, wedding dance or AM radio - those split vocals are docked about 3db compared to most of the backing track. The older 1968 stereo mix doesn't have nearly the same mono compatibility issues.
The stereo mix of the aforementioned "Everyone's Gone To The Moon" is perhaps the poster child of what can go wrong under variable, real-world listening conditions. In stereo, the split-channel, double-tracked vocals nearly overpower the instrumentation. When the stereo mix is played back in mono, Mr. King sounds as if he's already gone to the moon, awash in a sea of earthbound strings. The true mono Bartley CD track was indeed a godsend for that title.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 14 September 2013 at 6:03am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure, your reference to the 1968 stereo mix, did that first appear on
the UK LP "Hollies' Greatest"? If so, would you know what other songs made
their stereo (in whatever form) appearance there?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 14 September 2013 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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David, I only have a dub of the mono version of the UK Parlophone Hollies' Greatest LP, so I can't comment on the content of the stereo edition. I was going by MCT1's post in the other "Bus Stop" thread:
MCT1 wrote:
I found a page with a detailed UK Hollies discography. I do not see "Bus Stop" on the tracklistings for any albums released around the time it was out as a single. Its first UK LP appearance seems to be in 1968 on the album "The Hollies' Greatest". I'd think it likely that the stereo mix was not done until at least then.
http://www.proweb.co.uk/~rhaywood/records/albums.htm |
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Unfortunately, that link is no longer active. Perhaps someone who has the stereo UK Parlophone LP can chime in (my lone Imperial LP is the 1967 mono edition of The Hollies' Greatest Hits, and I have no idea what the stereo content would have been on the Capitol of Canada LPs.)
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 15 September 2013 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
| Back to the stereo "Bus Stop": In the case of the 1993 Ron Furmanek remix (and it is termed a "remix" in the 30th Anniversary Collection liner notes) Allan Clarke's double-tracked lead vocals are split between the two channels. |
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I seem to recall reading on another forum that Mr. Furmanek had said that he did no remixing of the Hollies recordings and that the "remixes" on the collection were simply found as-is "in the vault", having been mixed in the early 70's before the multitracks were trashed.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Hollies "Bus Stop"
