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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 12:58pm | IP Logged
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The database contains a note saying Stevie Wonder's "You Are the Sunshine of My Life" runs 3:00 on both the 45 and the LP. However, all versions running 2:50 or so are listed as "45 version" while all the versions running close to 3:00 are listed as "LP Version." What is the actual running time of the 45? I didn't find anything under a search.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 2:54pm | IP Logged
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I would presume all of the database CDs with a "45 version" are faded early. The LP version and 45 version are definitely different mixes.
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eriejwg
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So, the only way to get that missing 8-10 seconds is pick up the 45?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
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This is only speculation on my part, since I've not actually heard the 45. There may also be more than one 45 length, as we've seen in several other cases.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 11 April 2010 at 8:07am | IP Logged
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Running time of the DJ 45 is 3:00 for the stereo side and 2:59 for the mono side. The difference is due to a slighly sooner fade out on the mono side.
My DJ copy has a very low fade out on both sides that goes on longer than most fade outs.
My speculation is that when the single version was mastered for CD or maybe even compilation vinyl albums they just faded it out sooner.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 13 June 2013 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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i think if you use the cd's that have the 45 version as the
base and tack on the ending of the lp version, you should
be able to get pretty close to replicating the proper vinyl
45 length and version.....my commercial 45 runs 2:57..the
etching in the run out groove is T-54232-619-32-02A'...the
T-54232 has a line running through it...
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aaronk
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| Posted: 13 June 2013 at 10:30pm | IP Logged
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Ed, this is a good theory, but the 45 version is a different mix. I think I tried this once and didn't get good results.
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Aaron Kannowski
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 14 June 2013 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Ed, it can't be done because the 45 has added
drums/percussion and horns.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 14 June 2013 at 5:57pm | IP Logged
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really....i understand that the 45 version is a different
mix than the lp version but i listened to the last 0:10 of
the vinyl compared to the lp version and they sounded the
same.....let me give another listen tmw am when maybe i'm
not as tired.....be back tmw...
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edtop40
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| Posted: 15 June 2013 at 6:37am | IP Logged
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ok, i just gave the song another listen this
morning.....well....i think i may have to disagree with
both of you, aaron and hitsman.....the mix IS The same
except for the horn overdubs.......the cd lp version i
have from the 2 disc import collection titled 'definitive
collection' is the same as the vinyl 45, except for the
horn overdubs which run throughout the whole
song....BUT...the percussion parts (drums & cymbals) are
there.....and the last 0:09 of the vinyl 45, in my
opinion, can be tacked on to the end of
the cd 45 version, effectively re-creating the vinyl 45
version.........can i ask which cd's you are comparing
the vinyl 45 to as to think it can't be done?.....mark,
do you want to take a crack seeing if my hunch is right?
Edited by edtop40 on 15 June 2013 at 6:42am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 16 June 2013 at 1:48am | IP Logged
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Ed, I'll take another listen in the next day or so. I was comparing the cd
versions from Original Musiquarium and the full-length album.
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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| Posted: 16 June 2013 at 7:42pm | IP Logged
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Ed, I don't have the vinyl 45, but the percussion and overall mix of the versions on "Talking Book" and "Original Musiquarium" are not the same. Even on the fadeout, the bongos and vocals are louder on the LP version, and the cymbals are louder on the 45. When you try to splice the LP version ending onto the 45 version, it's immediately noticeable.
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Aaron Kannowski
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edtop40
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| Posted: 18 June 2013 at 11:08am | IP Logged
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aaron....i just gave my vinyl 45 an A/B listen again, for
the forth time, and i think it CAN be done.....MAYBE the
version on the two disc import cd 'definitive collection'
which i have is different than the lp version's you
reference in your prior post (talking book &
musicquarium)....i have sent mark both of the version for
him to take a listen....aaron, i will send you a copy of
the version from the 2 disc 'definitive collection' cd and
see if it IS different than your lp versions.....
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aaronk
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| Posted: 18 June 2013 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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Ed, I just downloaded your files. I am now comparing them for a fourth time, too. Here are my conclusions:
1) Even if you take away the horn overdubs, the 45 mix is not the same. There are places where the vocals are at different volumes (both lead and background), and the percussion is also mixed at different volume levels between the 45 and LP versions on CD. (And your LP version is the same as mine.)
2) Specifically comparing the fadeout between the two mixes, Stevie's vocal is panned slightly differently, and the keyboards, vocals and percussion are all at different volume levels between the two.
3) Your stylus is very worn, Ed. Even if I wanted to use your 45 dub to compare the final :07 seconds, it's just too hard to hear the difference using your dub. I highly recommend picking up a decent stylus. You will hear things on your records that you've never heard before!
So, could you tack on the LP ending and come "pretty close" (as you stated above)? Sure. But it wouldn't be exact. Personally, I'd rather have it end :07 early than have a close-but-not-exactly-matching ending. Instead, let me try to splice on the ending from a nice-sounding 45.
Edited by aaronk on 18 June 2013 at 7:08pm
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MMathews
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| Posted: 02 July 2013 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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Hi guys,
OK. Aaron .. i can sort of update/qualify Ed's theory.
I was able to graft on the LP ending to the 45 mix - YES!
they are quite different mixes. The hi-hats are much
louder in the 45 mix.
BUT! What i found you can do is use the VERY tail end of
the LP mix.
You must start with the absolute longest LP length on Cd,
which is "Talking Book". If you crank the end up, it
runs to 2:57.
The very last word heard is "eye" in "you are the apple
of of my eye". This is the very same length as Ed's 45,
2:57. It only worked because if you crank the end of the
45 mix, the hi-hats stop right before that last line, so
that all you really hear is Stevie's line and the fast-
played drums.
Also, it ONLY works if you start with longest 45 mix on
Cd, which is #1's....that copy runs to 2:55.
So all you need are those last 2 seconds from the LP
version, and it basically works. The other minor mix
differences are really not noticable because it is the
tail end of the fade.
Hope that helps.
Of course, i'm sure grafting it on from a mint 45 would
be ideal.
BTW, as i noted, that last line is the final audio i hear
on all versions i've played.....2:57 the word "eye" and
its done.
If there is an actual 3:00 running copy anywhere, i'd be
curious to hear it.
MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 02 July 2013 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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Mark, although it's very faint, the commercial copy I have in my possession truly runs at least 3:00. The promo copy is even cleaner, and the song definitely makes it all the way to 3:01.
It may not be evident on Ed's copy because of the surface noise and worn stylus, but there are horn overdubs while Stevie singing that last "apple of my eye" line. The drums are also pumped up on those last seconds of the 45. Also, the deadwax on my commercial copy matches Ed's exactly.
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Aaron Kannowski
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edtop40
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 8:24am | IP Logged
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aaron, what are the last words heard on both your commercial and promo 45's?.....i concur with mark that the last words heard on my commercial 45 are "eye" in "you are the apple of of my eye".
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aaronk
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
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Welcome to the hair splitters convention!
Ed, we have the same pressing of the commercial 45, and I have a dub of yours for reference. I agree that on your copy, the last words I can hear are "apple of my eye." At that point, the rumble, crackle, and surface noise are too loud to make out anything else. Listening to the ending of my copy, there is far less surface noise, and I can clearly hear background vocals and drums after the "apple of my eye" line, which is then followed by Stevie singing "forever...." This is all very faint audio, and there's no way you can hear it without an ultra clean copy and a nice turntable setup.
Ed, I sent you a dub of the promo 45 ending several days ago, and you can hear all of this very clearly with the volume cranked up. I also heard Mark's version with the LP version spliced on, it doesn't sound the same as the 45 ending, nor does it run as long. There are definitely horn overdubs on top of the line "apple of my eye," the drums are punched up much louder, and there is an additional hi-hat on the 45.
I stand by my original assessment that you cannot accurately re-create the full-length 45 version by tacking on the LP ending.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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Ok, after hearing Aaron's amplified sample i understand
that my "fix" is not truly accurate to the mix in the last
few seconds.
It's enough to pass a casual listen, but not if you turn
the end all the way up. The correct ending can only come
from a mint 45.
MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
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I also must make an amendment to my above statement. The stock copy ends just before the word "forever," which is at the 3:00 mark. The promo copy contains the "forever" at the 3:01 mark.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Stevie Wonder "You Are the Sunshine..."
