Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: "Superstar"

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Topic: "Superstar" - Carpenters

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 26 May 2005 at 11:06pm \| IP Logged

Pat:

A member of another chat board claims the remastered edition of the Carpenters' self-titled CD on A&M 828393502 contains the original hit recording of "Superstar". You comment in the 10th edition that this song is remixed and contains some rerecorded instrumentation on this disc. Could you please double-check your copy and let us know if the original version is actually on it?

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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:37am \| IP Logged

For those of you that have the original 45, listen to the piano at 1:38-1:39. To my ears, there is a different piano used on the cd A&M 828393502. Let's have some other opinions?

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davidclark
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Posted: 19 September 2006 at 6:36pm \| IP Logged

guys,

need to revive this thread. I just compared the version of Superstar on the remastered Carpenters CD and on The Singles 1969-1973. The two are different mixes for sure. This to me explains the slightly different piano sound at 1:38 Pat mentions. I don't think it's a different piano.

But more important, The Singles 1969-1973 has a hi hat from :14 to :20 that is NOT on the Carpenters CD.

So, anyone have the original 45 or LP to check if the hi-hat is present?

so I may have to retract my statement as to the remastered Carpenters containing the 45 versions (because of this track).

Edited by davidclark on 19 September 2006 at 6:51pm

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jimct
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Posted: 19 September 2006 at 8:39pm \| IP Logged

More than 10 years ago, I purchased that Carpenters self-titled CD. "Superstar" happens to be a personal favorite, and I know the song note-for-note. I bought it 100% for that ONE tune. And I totally agree with Pat - I have NEVER heard the original mix of "Superstar" on any issue of that CD (a friend of mine bought a later-made pressing of the same CD, and it is also incorrect.) Richard Carpenter has long gone to EXTRAORDINARY lengths to make sure his "embellished, with extra instrumentation added" versions were the ONLY ones released by A&M on CD, claiming the originals were "too hissy for that format", as I recall reading. However, I just received my new Collector's Choice catalog, and they now offer a just-released import that supposedly, and FINALLY, both addresses this issue and has seemingly gone to the effort to, at long last, restore the original mixes. This has allegedly occurred with Richard Carpenter's blessing (but why I can still sense his teeth gritting over this?) I have just ordered it tonight. If this set delivers what it promises, it will be my year's BEST purchase. And I will pass my findings along on the Board, be it good or bad.

Edited by jimct on 19 September 2006 at 10:57pm

Pat Downey
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Posted: 20 September 2006 at 5:09am \| IP Logged

I can answer one question for you David. The hi-hat you mention I believe is just two drumsticks but whatever the instrument, it is not present on either the original vinyl 45 or LP. Now as to whether the piano track has been rerecorded on "The Carpenters" cd, A&M 828393502 is open to debate so if anyone would care to voice an opinion let's hear it.

jimct
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Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:42am \| IP Logged

I stand corrected, Pat - I specifically hear no PIANO at all on "Superstar." In the spirit of 100% accuracy, Richard plays KEYBOARDS on this track, and does the same thing with THAT instrument that he normally does with the piano - embellished. In addition to the hi-hit that you and David correctly cite, just :09 seconds in on Superstar, from "The "Carpenters" CD, I hear several loud keyboard/bells notes that were not present on the 45. I just played the song through, and I hear him add the same thing in during at least 2 other points during the song. To me, numerous other, more subtle, extraneous keyboard sounds are also heard throughout the song. On the 45, relatively speaking, it is VERY musically sparse, compared to this much "busier" version, IMHO. My apologies, Pat - in this instance, it is NOT a piano - I just always stop my CD in disgust as soon as I hear that :09 bogus audio, hence the mis-identification of the keyboard as piano. David asked me to shoot out a 45 dub to him to compare with; I will now do so, to get his feedback.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 September 2006 at 4:54pm \| IP Logged

FYI - I believe that the original mixes are also on Carpenters Collection (Time-Life Music SUD-21, 1993; part of original Superhits series and never made it into an AM Gold equivalent).

"Superstar" is certainly missing the hi-hat from :14 to :20.

01 We've Only Just Begun 3:04.33
02 Superstar 3:48.00
03 Rainy Days and Mondays 3:35.50
04 Top of the World 2:59.17
05 Ticket to Ride 4:09.08
06 Goodbye To Love 3:54.10
07 It's Going to Take Some Time 2:54.72
08 Sweet, Sweet Smile 2:57.30
09 I Won't Last a Day Without You 3:52.65
10 Hurting Each Other 2:45.15
11 There's a Kind of Hush 3:02.50
12 Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft 7:08.08
13 Only Yesterday 3:58.67
14 For All We Know 2:31.28
15 Touch Me When We're Dancing 3:20.47
16 Close to You 3:41.25
17 Please Mr. Postman 2:47.33
18 Sing 3:17.30
19 All You Get from Love Is a Love Song 3:47.02
20 I Need to Be in Love 3:49.58
21 Yesterday Once More 3:57.37

There are scans of the cover art at http://www.setnes.net/cftp/compilations/timelife/index.htm#s h

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Brian W.
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Posted: 21 September 2006 at 3:27am \| IP Logged

Hmm... This guy, who has quite an extensive Carpenters discography on the Net, says the Time-Life CD does not use all the original mixes, including Superstar...

http://www.grantguerrero.com/carpenters/collection.html

Edited by Brian W. on 21 September 2006 at 3:28am

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 21 September 2006 at 7:52am \| IP Logged

It's very possible. The website cites a 1985 remix, a 1990 remix and a 1991 remix; I'm not sure which is which, and I don't have the 45 for comparison.

I'd defer to him; he seems to be a true Carpenters fan, and I'm just a fan of the Time-Life collections.

Roscoe
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Posted: 24 September 2006 at 12:15pm \| IP Logged

This case has me intrigued. The "remastered classics" have always been touted as containing the original LP versions, with none of the infamous remixing and re-records that plague most of the Carpenters catalog on CD.

I just listened to "Superstar" on both my original Carpenters LP and the remastered classics CD version. It sure sounds like the same mix to me. The light tapping on the high hat from :14 to :20 is present on both the LP and the CD. The keyboard flourishes at :09 are also on both the LP and CD.

However, I don't have the 45. Perhaps the original 45 and LP mixes differed, and it's this 45 mix that has never made it to CD. If that is the case, it wouldn't be the first time (the original 45 mixes of Please Mr. Postman and Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft are also MIA on CD).

EdisonLite
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Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:17pm \| IP Logged

Re: "Please Mr. Postman"

<(the original 45 mixes of Please Mr. Postman and Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft are also MIA on CD).>

I don't think this has ever been mention before, or even in Pat's book -- there's a 45 mix of "Please Mr. Postman"??? And only the "LP version" and re-mixes have made it to CD? Is this true?

Roscoe
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Posted: 24 September 2006 at 4:52pm \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

The 45 mix of Please Mr. Postman probably doesn't qualify as a "45 version" under Pat's criteria due to the fact that it sounds like just a rebalancing of instruments & vocals, with no unique instrument or vocal elements on the 45. However, you can definitely tell a difference in the mix. The 45 mix has a more "lo-fi" sound than the LP mix.

Brian W.
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 9:07pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

I just received my new Collector's Choice catalog, and they now offer a just-released import that supposedly, and FINALLY, both addresses this issue and has seemingly gone to the effort to, at long last, restore the original mixes. I have just ordered it tonight. I will pass my findings along on the Board, be it good or bad.

So what's the story, morning glory?

jimct
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 10:25pm \| IP Logged

BTW, those 90's Time/Lifes are DEFINITELY bogus - I got 'em when they first came out, (futilly) hoping. As for the new 3-CD import, it has just arrived. MOSTLY good news. Richard's tinkering is gone. The only REAL clunker is on "Yesterday Once More", where essential and original mix guitar parts are MISSING. I never recall hearing it like that, but I don't have that original LP, so it could still possibly be the original LPv, but I doubt it; it DEFINITELY isn't the 45v, though. And, predictably, the LP, not the 45 versions, for "Ticket To Ride", "Top Of The World" and "Calling Occupants" are used. However, I am THRILLED to report that my 3 top "original version wants", "We've Only Just Begun", "Superstar" and "Goodbye To Love", have been "De-Richard-remixed". I believe both the LP and 45 versions for those 3 songs were the same. Also, "I Won't Last A Day Without You", "Hurting Each Other", "For All We Know", "It's Going To Take Some Time", and "Close To You" are the correct originals, although I'd previously gotten those on CD correctly. I haven't yet listened to from "Please Mr. Postman" on with a critical ear yet (I'm sure the LP mix on that one, a current Board topic, will be on the new Import), but the aforementioned songs were the ones Richard did most of his "embellishing" damage on. So, at long last, I have now finally gained a little personal confidence to some prior thread statements that this "latest" round of "Carpenters Remasters" may actually, FINALLY be the CORRECT original album mixes. If buying, however, you may wanna check the "Born On" date for the CDs. 2005/2006 - you're probably OK. 1990s "Carpenters Remasters" - buyer beware.

Brian W.
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Posted: 05 October 2006 at 8:14pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for the rundown, Jim.

Roscoe
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Posted: 07 October 2006 at 9:51pm \| IP Logged

Sorting through the mess that has been created with the various remixes issued on CD over the years has perplexed me.

Armed with a copy of the original A&M 45 of Superstar that I recently acquired, along with the original "Carpenters" vinyl LP and the "Remastered Classics" CD (A&M 828393502), here is my assessment as it relates to those specific products:
- The mix of Superstar on the original Carpenters LP and the Remastered Classics CD is the same. They both contain the light high hat tapping from :14 to :20.
- The 45 mix of Superstar is different than the original LP mix; no high hat at :14.

So, the 45 version of Superstar is a different mix than the original LP version. Simple enough. My open questions are:
- Does the Remastered Classics of Singles 69-73 contain the original 45 mix, LP mix, or a new mix altogether?
- Which mix is on the recent 3-disc import (45 mix with no high hat or the LP mix)?

jimct
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Posted: 08 October 2006 at 3:48am \| IP Logged

Roscoe: Your "Superstar" comments surprised me a little. I have 5 other Carpenters CD comps beside the 3-CD Import I just bought (Box Set, Time/Life, '69-'73, 25th Anniv. Collection, and an "A&M Classics" 2-CD set), but not the "Remastered Classics" set you refer to. I just played my original 45 again, my 1971 mono DJ 45 again, my '69-73 CD (which version I would've considered acceptable if "Rainy Days And Mondays" didn't start 7 seconds before the "Superstar" ending is completed.) Per your instructions, I've repeatedly listened for the presence/non-presence of that hi-hat between :14 and :20. You seem to have a matter-of-fact, totally unwavering confidence in the appearance/absence of such, clearly resulting in your "2 versions" conclusion. Roscoe, I just can't get there; I don't know what the heck you are hearing that is so obviously jumping out at you, sir. I hear the hi-hat on my 45; I hear it on my DJ 45; I hear it on my '69-'73 CD - I hear it on my Import 3-CD set. I just can't find a source where the hi-hat is NOT there. David Clark has recently compared a 45v dub I sent him to a digital source he has; his expert ear has also given it the "45v thumbs up." You're puzzled with my findings, and I'm puzzled by yours. BTW, I've long believed some of their 45s were slightly pitched up for release, especially "I Won't Last A Day Without You", and "Superstar" as well. My ear isn't great, Roscoe. but David has a good one. Maybe we can call in another of the Board's "Audio PhD's" like Ed, Todd, Aaron or Brian, to help us finally get to the bottom of it. Any volunteers?

Edited by jimct on 08 October 2006 at 3:52am

Brian W.
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Posted: 08 October 2006 at 4:43am \| IP Logged

Well, if Roscoe and David want to email me their respective 45 dubs of Superstar, I'll see what I can hear. Maybe there were two different 45 versions. My email addresss is superbu1 at yahoo.

Roscoe
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Posted: 08 October 2006 at 7:25am \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

Well, I stand corrected (he says while carefully wiping egg from face). My 45 is scratchy and the :14-:20 high hat was a little buried in surface noise. I just wasn't listening hard enough. It's very low in the mix, but it's there.

I revise my earlier comment: The 45 mix and LP mix are one and the same. This is the mix that's available on the Remastered Classics version of the Carpenters CD.

I can also confirm that the LP and 45 speeds are the same.

FWIW, the "Remastered Classics" series is a good one to know about. It has been purported to be the only complete release of all the original albums in their unaltered state on CD. I have all the Remastered Classics, and have yet to come across any songs that sound different than the original LP versions (although I haven't been anal enough to A-B all of them).

Sorry for my error.

edtop40
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 7:21pm \| IP Logged

my commercial 45 for the carpenters song 'superstar' issued
as a&m 1289 lists a run time on the label as 3:49 and does
indeed run that length...and matches perfectly the version
on the japanese box set....this 45 run time s/b added to
the db.....as many of the remix versions run short

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