Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982

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Topic: Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982

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995wlol
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Posted: 31 December 2008 at 6:27pm \| IP Logged

I just received this CD in the mail (bought it to uprgrade the 45 version of Steve Miller Band's Abracadabra on my VH1 The Big 80's CD, which is quite loud and compressed/maximized).
Well, the version of Abracadabra on the SOT 80s 1980-1982 disk suffers from a loud burst of static from about 0:01 to 0:03. This disk is in absolutely flawless condition, so it appears to be a mastering problem. Does anyone else have this issue? If so, it might be worth noting in the database (I wouldn't have purchased had I known about it).

aaronk
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Posted: 31 December 2008 at 7:31pm \| IP Logged

I'm not sure about that disc, but I'm pretty certain "Abracadabra" is just an early fade on the 45. The database states "45 version," but I believe it's one of those cases where Pat chose to use "version" for what I would consider "length." In another thread, Bill also states that the 45 is also sped up quite a bit. That could also be a reason for designating it as "version."

Edited by aaronk on 31 December 2008 at 7:35pm

sriv94
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Posted: 31 December 2008 at 9:06pm \| IP Logged

Correct on both counts, Aaron. The 45 is an early fade (very early, in fact) and is sped up. Given the over a minute disparity, I'd have no quibble calling it a "version" even if the speeds were the same.

I do have the SOTE disc, but not at my immediate disposal. I'll try to check over the next day or so to see if I have the same issue.

And Happy New Year, one and all!

Edited by sriv94 on 31 December 2008 at 9:07pm

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 01 January 2009 at 11:30am \| IP Logged

I thought that fades and "very early fades" were supposed to be designated as "length". I just checked Addrisi Bros "Slow Dancin'..." in the database, which is a very early fade, faded to 3:12 instead of nearly 6 minutes, and Pat lists this as "version."

This is very confusing to me. And this methodology will cause a lot of people to buy CDs unnecessarily when they can just fade the songs on CDs they already own.

Pat, for our knowledge - when a song fades early, where do you draw the line between "length" and "version" designations - for instance, if a faded song is 2:00 shorter than its album counterpart it's a "version" but if it's faded 1:59 shorter than its album counterpart it's a "length"?? Wherever the random dividing line is drawn, it seems very inconsistent with what you otherwise describe as a "length" in the database. (Or do you just randomly choose the designation and not have a specific time used as the dividing line, which is even more random)?

For me, Pat, your database is helpful in so many ways, but if a song ever fades early (regardless of how many seconds/minutes early), if it gets a "version" designation, it's just confusing.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 01 January 2009 at 1:00pm \| IP Logged

I listened to my copy of Sounds Of The Eighties - 1980-1982, and I don't hear any obvious static or noise on the intro to "Abracadabra".

Here's a test you can run - Google the program called Exact Audio Copy, or EAC. It's a free audio extraction tool, and it's the favorite of audiophiles because of its ability to extract accurately and report when there may be possible errors. Download the program, use the default settings to get you started, and see if "Abracadabra" puts up a fight. I'm willing to bet that there are some errors at the beginning of your CD.

(If all else fails, let me know and I'll send you a dub from my CD. That CD is my preferred source for "Abracadabra".)

Search for other posts by crapfromthepast

aaronk
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Posted: 01 January 2009 at 1:10pm \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

... do you just randomly choose the designation and not have a specific time used as the dividing line, which is even more random?

We've argued this before, and I'm with you, Gordon. It's very confusing when the database randomly chooses which early fades are considered "versions." There are even instances in the database where a song fades only a matter of seconds earlier, but it still gets a "version" designation, because the full song ends cold.

"We Are The World" is another example of an early fade that is designated as "version," because there are soloists that are not featured earlier in the song. Again, it's very arbitrary, and there are no definite rules as to how the "length" and "version" designators are applied to early fades.

995wlol
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Posted: 01 January 2009 at 1:36pm \| IP Logged

I've probably read nearly all of the posts involving the "length" vs "version" argument, but haven't chimed in yet, so here I go. It seems that there are quite a large number of forum members (myself included) that utilize audio editing software to create early fades and edits from LP versions already in their collections. Due to this fact, it seems like the "45 length" designation would be much more useful to those members, regardless whether any lyrics or unique audio occur after the fade, which doesn't seem particularly important when tracking down a version since most people are already familiar with the given version they are searching for. Personally, I would love to see a third designation in addition to "45 version" and "45 length" called something like "45 mix." This would tell me that I can neither fade nor edit the LP version to recreate the "single" version. Of course I know that this is easy for me to throw out there since I'm not the one maintaining the database :-) Just my two cents.

aaronk
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Posted: 01 January 2009 at 2:57pm \| IP Logged

I think it's one of those things that would be too much work to go back and change at this point. What bothers me is that there is not a rule that can be applied to determine "length" vs "version" for early fades. Not having a rule also makes it very inconsistent. For instance, "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" by Yes gets a "45 length" designation; however, you could argue that there is a key change at the end with different lyrics that are not on the 45 and thus should be a "version."

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 02 January 2009 at 4:19pm \| IP Logged

995wlol wrote:

Personally, I would love to see a third designation in addition to "45 version" and "45 length" called something like "45 mix." This would tell me that I can neither fade nor edit the LP version to recreate the "single" version.

Actually, Pat does use "45 mix" and "LP mix" notations in the database on occasion, such as for the Beatles' "Yesterday" and Badfinger's "Baby Blue". These designations can also be tricky because many times the mix differences between a stereo LP and a mono 45, other than the obvious left-right channel panning, may not be easily noticeable to the casual listener. For instance, a mono mix might consist of slightly louder vocals or feature certain instruments a little more prominently compared to its stereo counterpart. As we delve deeper into more '60s Top 40 hits, I'm sure this issue will become front and center (no pun intended!) for many 45 and LP comparisons.

Edited by Todd Ireland on 02 January 2009 at 4:20pm

Pat Downey
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Posted: 04 January 2009 at 9:20pm \| IP Logged

Aaron, thanks for pointing out the lyric change in the longer version of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart". For that reason, I have changed the designation from LP length to LP version in the database.

Originally as I recall, I used a criteria that would automatically warrant a "version" comment if there was 1 minute of additional music on the LP vs the 45.

In the case of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" even though there isn't a 1 minute difference of time, there is that additional lyric that warrants a "version" designation.

If you come across any other circumstances similar to "Owner Of A Lonely Heart", point them out to me and I will change the designation.

EdisonLite
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Posted: 05 January 2009 at 12:13am \| IP Logged

<however, you could argue that there is a key change at the end with different lyrics that are not on the 45 and thus should be a "version.">

Aaron and Pat - I'm confused about this. If there are different lyrics on the Yes "Owner" 45 that do not occur on the same spot on the LP, then this would definitely be an issue of "version" and not "length." Is that what happens on the 45? Or do you mean, there's a key change (i.e. a modulation) on the "album length" version AFTER the 45 would be over?

And are you and Pat now saying that if after the 45 is over, the LP simply has repeating choruses it would be labeled as "length" but if there's another verse, i.e. different lyrics, then this qualifies for a "version" (even though the LP can be faded to 45)?

WOW - this is SOOOO confusing.

So ... if the LP can be faded to the 45 (what would normally constitue a "length" designation), it's supposed to be listed as a "version" IF any one of the following conditions happens:

1) what follows on the LP has a key change
2) what follows on the LP is more than 1 minute long
3) what follows on the LP has a new vocalist (i.e. "We Are the World")
4) what follows on the LP has a new verse with different lyrics
BUT - if what follows on the LP is just more choruses, it's a "length"?

And what do we do if what follows on the LP is ad libs (new words) that aren't a new verse and not on any previous choruses - what's that??

WOW, wouldn't it just be a lot easier to state that if you can fade an LP to be the 45, it should just be labeled "45 length"?

Edited by EdisonLite on 05 January 2009 at 12:14am

EdisonLite
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Posted: 05 January 2009 at 12:17am \| IP Logged

Pat, if I understand you correctly, "Owner of a Lonely Heart" cannot be faded to the 45 because there are words on the 45 that are different in the same spot on the LP (and thus, the new designation as "45 version"?)

And we can't edit the LP to be the "45 version" because of these unique words?

Edited by EdisonLite on 05 January 2009 at 12:17am

Pat Downey
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Posted: 05 January 2009 at 7:45am \| IP Logged

Owner Of A Loneloy Heart can be faded to generate the 45 version. The additional lyrics occur after the 45 would have faded out.

NightAire
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Posted: 03 November 2010 at 10:08pm \| IP Logged

I'll make this even MORE complicated; as 995wlol said, this is easy since I'm not having to maintain the database. ;-)

I wish it indicated "45: early fade" or "45: edit" to distinguish when I can just knock off the last X-number of seconds (or minutes) vs where I'm going to have to go in and slice and dice the album version.

...I know, I know, be thankful for what you've got! I am... but this WOULD be nice, at least for me. :)

Carry on,

Edited by NightAire on 03 November 2010 at 10:09pm

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 5:26pm \| IP Logged

Four years after my last post on this song, and I owe a few
of you an apology. Turns out that the version on Sounds
Of The Eighties Vol. 14 1980-1982 does have a
burst of static on the intro, starting at the first snare
hit after the intro and lasting about two beats. The
static sounds a little like a mistuned FM radio, not a
clicky sound.

Somehow, I missed it the first time through...

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