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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 17 January 2011 at 12:13am | IP Logged
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I would love to know how to determine which mono 45s in general are simply a fold-down of a stereo mix? In other words, if I were to take a stereo mix of a song on CD and fold it down to mono, is there any possible way to tell if its the correct mono 45 mix (when applicable) without having an actual vinyl 45 to check against? It's my understanding the vast majority of 45s were dedicated mono mixes prior to 1968.
Perhaps we could even utilize this thread to post Top 40 hits where their respective mono 45 release is a fold-down of a stereo mix...
Edited by Todd Ireland on 17 January 2011 at 12:35am
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 17 January 2011 at 12:56am | IP Logged
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I'm not sure it would be possible to tell without comparing them with the vinyl 45. I am 99% positive that Ray Stevens' "Everything is Beautiful" was a fold-down, as was Jimmy Dean's "I.O.U." and the mono promo edit of Ringo Star's "Oh My My." These I know from comparing them to the mono 45s.
Engineer Bill Porter has said that everything he ever mixed at RCA Studio B in Nashville with folded down for the mono version with the exception of "Suspicious Minds," which I believe was a fold-down but with the horn overdub added. (There were no tracks left on the multitrack tape to add anything else, so the overdub was done live during the mix.)
Problem with the RCA Nashville Studio B stuff is that some of it has been remixed in the CD era. I know much of the Everly Brothers stuff was remixed, as was a lot of Roy Orbison's, so it's a matter of making sure you have the original Bill Porter stereo mixes on those.
Even some of the tracks on the DCC "Elvis 24 Karat Hits," which claimed to use the original Bill Porter mixes... Steve Hoffman said in a post a few years ago on his website: "I can now reveal that I remixed some of the tracks found on 'Elvis 24 Karat Hits.'" He couldn't seem to remember exactly all that he remixed, except for "Return to Sender," which wasn't a Bill Porter mix anyway, and I think "Devil in Disguise," where he said he tried to recreate Porter's original stereo mix. (The mono single had been a fold-down of Porter's original stereo mix, but RCA brass didn't like his stereo mix, so they had someone else remix the stereo version for the stereo album and wiped Porter's original.)
Additionally, Steve Hoffman wrote a whole essay for a Creedence vinyl box set that he mastered where he said that all of Creedence's mono Fantasy singles were fold-downs from the album versions.
Edited by Brian W. on 17 January 2011 at 12:57am
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davidclark
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| Posted: 17 January 2011 at 11:05am | IP Logged
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I know I am dreaming Todd, but I would love it if for each 45 where it was
mono, we had an indication of whether the mono was a fold-down or a
unique mix. Perhaps when we are bored with all the information we have at
present (which is lots btw), we will move to this as a group. I tried to start a
remix thread a while back (a much easier task), but it went nowhere...
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 17 January 2011 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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It would warrant it's own discussion. The late 60's and early 70's contained lots of variations, singles could feature a dedicated mono mix, a stronger stereo mix, straight fold downs, CSG processed stereo, or CSG processed mono.(CSG wasn't always noted on the label when used to create a mono fold down) It would be great to find some engineers from the period who could lend more definitive information.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 17 January 2011 at 4:56pm | IP Logged
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While a listing of known fold-downs vs. dedicated mixes would be great, it would also be quite a project to assemble...for many songs the real answer would likely never be known.
My understanding is that the majority of mono versions up through the late 60s were dedicated mixes and that fold-downs were the exception. After that it's not as clear, particularly for early 70s hits that were in mono for their commercial 45.
On some songs, a mix difference is easily detectable by folding the stereo version and comparing to the 45. But often it can be quite difficult to determine...compression and EQ applied during mastering can make it difficult to distinguish between mix and mastering differences.
What may be more feasible is to add a comment to (M) listings in the database where it is known to be a stereo fold-down and not the true mono mix (those Roulette "Rock & Roll Hits of the 60s" comps come to mind). At least that would alert those of us seeking the true mono mix to avoid those CDs.
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waldo
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| Posted: 30 January 2011 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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surely there must be alot. i have mono pressings of The Jacksons 7" singles for Enjoy Yourself.. Blame It On The Boogie.. MJ & DR Ease On Down The Road.. all of these are Stereo fold downs. nothing special about them, in fact they sound crap. a have a few more, the last one i got was Gwen Guthrie's Peanut Butter. that isn't a TOP40 hit though. i snap up cheap copies i find and give them a spin to see if there's anything unique about the mix. in these cases, nothing. were some of the Police singles presented in Mono? i used to collect them. i recall there being one or two.
Edited by waldo on 30 January 2011 at 10:42am
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aaronk
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Bump
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bitman
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| Posted: 10 November 2012 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
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All things I never considered...well, at least the labels are starting to release the single versions bit by bit.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: mono 45s that are stereo fold-downs...
