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JL328
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
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I'm afraid that this question may come across somewhat convoluted, but hopefully I can ask it in a way that makes sense...
I don't how many of you still actively follow the Billboard charts or pay attention to new music. I get the feeling that I'm a little bit younger than most of you and so I still have a passing interest in new music.
Since the onset of the iTunes/digital download age, a ton of songs have hit the Billboard Top 40 with zero airplay based simply on the strength of their digital downloads. Many of these songs have heavy downloads, debut high, and then disappear from the chart entirely within two weeks.
It seems that these songs fall into a few different categories:
1) Promotional singles that are released to iTunes/Amazon prior to the release of the actual album. An example would be the original version of "You're Not Sorry" by Taylor Swift and "Die in Your Arms" by Justin Bieber.
2) Bonus Tracks from Deluxe Versions of popular CDs that are released on a certain day and hit the Top 40 all at once. An example would be "Jump Then Fall" by Taylor Swift from the Platinum Edition of "Fearless."
3) Charity singles or live performances from special events like the Grammys, Idol Gives Back, Hope for Haiti Now, and Artists Stand Up to Cancer. Examples would be "Cry Baby Cry/Piece of My Heart" by Joss Stone and Melissa Etheridge and "I'll Stand by You" by Carrie Underwood.
4) Songs from TV shows (i.e., Glee). Examples would be all of the songs from Glee and the remixed version of "You're Not Sorry" by Taylor Swift from CSI (which I believe to have been the "hit version" when the song hit the Top 40 for the second time?).
5) Live songs or promotional singles from live singing competitions like American Idol and the Voice. Examples would be "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by David Cook, "You Give Love a Bad Name" by Blake Lewis, and "Imagine" by David Archuleta.
I understand that I need to get out more but I'm kind of fascinated by these "one-week wonders." They are all Top 40 Hits that never appeared on the radio and were soon forgotten (if they were ever known in the first place). Further, none of the songs in Categories #3 and #5 ever appear on CD. In fact, many of the "hits" in those two categories (the charity songs, the Grammy songs, and the American Idol songs, for example) are quickly pulled from iTunes and Amazon and are not even available in any format any more.
The songs that fit into Categories #4 and #5 are well-known and easy to compile. But does anybody have a complete list of the songs that fit into Categories #1, #2, and #3?
For instance, I know that artists like Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus released songs from upcoming albums that were gobbled up digitally, hit the Top 40, and then immediately fell off. If anybody cares about Justin Bieber, he seems to have had some songs that did the same as well. Although some of these songs were later released as "singles" and re-charted, some never found their way to radio.
Further, regarding Category #2, I know that Taylor Swift had about six songs from the Platinum Edition of "Fearless" hit the Top 40 all in the same week when it was released. I'm guessing a whole bunch of people jumped on to iTunes and bought the new songs they did not have? Did this happen with other artists as well?
Regarding #3, I know there was the Grammy renditions of "Across the Universe" and "Cry Baby Cry/Piece of My Heart." There was also the Carrie Underwood "Idol Gives Back" songs and the Hope for Haiti Now songs. Any others? Also, does anybody have any idea why all of these songs are no longer digitally available?
I know that many of you have no interest in current music but I was wondering if anybody had a list of these "one-week wonder" Top 40 hits. Much appreciated if so... otherwise, thanks for reading.
Oh, and if anybody was wondering, this post was inspired by the song "Ronan" by Taylor Swift which is currently on the Billboard Top 40 and seems to fit well within Category #3. It seems to be a charity single that nobody has ever heard and which is receiving no airplay. People love Taylor Swift though. So, it debuted at #16 last week. Fell to #36 this week. Next week, it will likely be gone?
Edited by JL328 on 20 September 2012 at 2:50pm
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Hykker
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
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I'm not completely sure what you're asking, but I'll take a guess and say that you're wondering if anyone's compiled a list of songs that made the Top 40 (Billboard?), but received little or no airplay. If that's your question, I'd say the answer is "probably not".
Even though I'm in my early-ish 60s I still listen to CHR/Hot AC radio, though I don't really follow chart positions. Occasionally I'll listen to AT40, and am surprised at the number of 6+ month old songs on the chart...many of which don't even get much airplay as recurrents on the stations I listen to. If I look at the Mediabase charts at fmqb.com, I'll generally recognize ~50% of them...and these are, by definition being played since it's an airplay-only chart. Don't blame ya for not knowing most of the charters that were sales only.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
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I do still listen to a TON of current music. I'm 33 and run a DJ company,
so it's important for me to stay up on the new music. Even if it wasn't my
job, I do enjoy all the new CHR/Pop/Hot AC hits.
Having spend many years in broadcasting, I've always tended to look at
the airplay charts regularly for what's hot. Frankly, I think that today, the
top 20 on the Hot 100 and the top 20 on Mediabase are probably very
similar, but there are those "sales only" songs that sneak into the upper
reaches of the charts for short periods, as JL328 brings up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but our good friend Paul Haney and the folks at
Record Research would include these songs in their fine publications, no?
It wouldn't be hard to recognize them when looking at the "weeks on
chart" column in the book. The only downside, though, is that by the time
the books were published, those songs may be no longer available for
purchase :(
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
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JL328:
Are you a subscriber to Pat Downey's Top 40 Music on Compact Disc database? If so, there's a way you may be able to obtain a list of some entries for items #3 through #5 on your list... If you go to the TITLE SEARCH page, follow these steps:
1) Next to YEAR RANGE: type "2005" and "2012", respectively, in the blank fields.
2) Next to ON CD:, click the "N" option button.
3) Click the SEARCH button.
You should then see a list of Top 40 hits from this time period, many of which received little to no radio airplay, that have never appeared on a domestic full-length CD release. As for compiling a complete and comprehensive list of the Top 40 singles you're looking for, I'm afraid you may have little choice but to roll up your sleeves and sift through each individual weekly Billboard Hot 100 chart over the past eight years or so. :-( But the search tip I've provided should at least help give you a decent start.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 20 September 2012 at 7:36pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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That's a great idea, Todd! Obviously it wouldn't provide an all-encompassing list, but definitely a great start.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:16am | IP Logged
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Well, I'm 46 years-old and I still follow the new music every week. Part of my job is to enter ALL the new entries on the Billboard charts each week (I also listen to EVERY new Hot 100 & Bubbling entry). We don't designate the songs into "categories", but it is pretty easy to tell which ones are fueled by download sales only (the Glee Cast songs spring to mind). I don't have a solution as to how to get an actual list of just those songs, but you could (for instance) look at our latest Pop Annual (which includes 2011) and pretty easily pick out those songs you're looking for (I can spot several that peaked in the Top 40 in 2011 alone).
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JL328
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 5:16am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the replies. This is all very helpful. Sorry for being confusing--- I had a feeling I would be.
I actually have compiled a list of these songs. I was more checking to see if anyone had a definitive list to compare.
Hykker, to answer your question, I guess what I'm really interested in is a list of the songs that hit the Top 40 and the Digital Songs chart but never touched the Radio Songs chart. So, it's a little narrower than just songs that hit the Top 40 with little to no airplay. To put it in a more abstract way, I'm looking for a list of the songs that (1) hit the BB Top 40; (2) were released as digital downloads; (3) were never released to radio; and (4) which had non-traditional chart runs, debuting one week based solely on downloads and then disappearing shortly thereafter.
Todd, I do subscribe to the database and use it often. I honestly had not thought to do the "no cd" search even though that seems painfully obvious in hindsight. Doing so provides a very good list but there are some songs that are not in the database. For instance, the two grammy songs, "Cry Baby Cry/Piece of My Heart" and "Across the Universe" aren't there. Also, I'm not sure if it's just a mis-entry, but it doesn't capture "Hallelujah" by Justin Timberlake feat. Matt Morris as "not on CD" even though that song is in the database and not available on CD (or even digitally anymore). Conversely, the search captures a number of songs that were (I believe) released to radio and had more traditional chart runs, but which were otherwise available only as digital downloads (or on foreign albums). This includes some songs by T.I., Jay Sean, and Lil Wayne, for instance.
My interest in these songs started a few years ago when my wife told me that Carrie Underwood had done a rendition of "Praying for Time," a song that I love. I did a search for it only to find that the song had actually hit the Top 40 in 2008. Like you guys, I love music and love the charts and couldn't fathom how this had slipped under my nose. It appears that people downloaded the heck out of it after she performed it on American Idol but it was never played on the radio and never available on CD. Nonetheless, the downloads took it into the Top 40 for one week (maybe two). Even more frustrating was realizing that the song was not available anywhere, even digitally, any more by the time I was looking for it (which was probably still in 2008, to be sure). It had been pulled from iTunes, thus making it a "lost Top 40 hit" and fueling my obsession.
So, I started watching for these "one week digital download wonders" and was amazed at just how many there are nowadays. Every one of them seems to have a story behind the reasons people are donwloading it so much and every one of them seems to fit into one of those 5 very loose categories I outlined above.
I'm somwehat new here and don't post too often, but I absolutely love this website and the insight you guys provide. I'm not sure how much interest there is in music post-2000 or in this topic in general, but if anybody else does have an interest in this, I would be more than happy to type in the list that I had compiled.
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torcan
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 2:10pm | IP Logged
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Interesting discussion. I'm sure we all have different opinions on this, but the charts (and music, for that matter) just aren't what they were. I really miss the "good old days". I'm not much of a fan of today's music - I feel like it's really difficult to find those diamonds in the rough - there's just very little that comes out each year that interests me. Rap and hip-hop have dominated the charts for years and I'm not a huge fan of either - but it seems we're stuck in this kind of rut with no end in sight.
As for the Hot 100, I've always followed it but don't like the way they're compiling it these days. When you look at records set - like David Cook debuting with 11 songs in one week, or Taylor Swift having 6 top 40 hits in the same week...or recent ones - L'il Wayne tying Elvis Presley for most Hot 100 appearances, or "Glee" - it's all bogus.
Up to the late '90s, if someone debuted with 11 songs in one week, it would be all 45 sales/airplay of songs released and promoted as singles. Now, these songs are hitting the charts as downloads that aren't really "singles". I wouldn't mind it so much if these songs were promoted as such - either by radio promos, physical sales or downloads of the intended single. If people are downloading each song on the album and these songs, which weren't even intended to be singles are charting for a week or two, it's a meaningless record, and when you look back at the "history" in the future, it's all distorted now.
I'm sure acts like the Beatles, Bee Gees, Michael Jackson, Madonna and probably Mariah Carey would have had the same success if these rules were in place then.
I really don't think anything should chart unless it's intended to be a "single" - not just an album track people download for a week or two then it disappears. Or even a "charity single" that you have no hope of ever finding a month after it's release.
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aaronk
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torcan wrote:
| I'm not much of a fan of today's music - I feel like it's really difficult to find those diamonds in the rough - there's just very little that comes out each year that interests me. Rap and hip-hop have dominated the charts for years and I'm not a huge fan of either - but it seems we're stuck in this kind of rut with no end in sight. |
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During my time at Radio Disney (from 2003 to 2008), I didn't listen to the local CHR station on a regular basis. As such, there weren't many pop hits that became favorites of mine during that time period. Simply put, the songs were somewhat unfamiliar to me--I hadn't heard them enough to call any of them favorites.
Since then, I've spent a lot of time catching up on the last decade of music. There are a lot of great songs that have come out, and that still holds true today.
I do strongly disagree that rap and hip-hop dominate the charts. I just looked at the CHR top 20 (airplay), and the only songs that I would even consider to be hip-hop a "Whistle" by Flo Rida and "Pound The Alarm" by Nicki Minaj. Even that is a stretch, because both Flo Rida and Nicki Minaj sing on a majority of the songs (not rap). Dance music dominates the charts these days (at least on CHR radio), with most songs being 128 to 130 BPM.
torcan wrote:
| As for the Hot 100, I've always followed it but don't like the way they're compiling it these days. When you look at records set - like David Cook debuting with 11 songs in one week, or Taylor Swift having 6 top 40 hits in the same week...or recent ones - L'il Wayne tying Elvis Presley for most Hot 100 appearances, or "Glee" - it's all bogus...I really don't think anything should chart unless it's intended to be a "single" - not just an album track people download for a week or two then it disappears. Or even a "charity single" that you have no hope of ever finding a month after it's release. |
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I agree with you that the charts are not like they used to be, but it's not the fault of Billboard. This is simply the way we consume music today (no physical disc or tape to purchase), and the charts are simply reflecting that. I don't consider it to be "bogus," though. Sure, you may have some songs that have a decent peak position, but when you look at weeks on chart, that will tell you right away if it was a legitimate hit or not. It's easy to weed out those songs, should you choose to do so.
Edited by aaronk on 21 September 2012 at 3:50pm
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Aaron Kannowski
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MMathews
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
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I too found this new digital era phenomenon of the
"quicky" charter for momentary hits very interesting.
I've actually discussed it with quite a few friends. I
got a few phone calls after that article about whomever
breaking the old record set by the Beatles or Elvis for
Hot 100 entries (was it the Glee cast?..not sure) ...
and of course my response was "ridiculous to even make
the comparison!!" Apples (no pun intended..) to
Oranges... as pointed out above, the previous era
required promotion, airplay and a physical medium we had
to go to the store and lay down that dollar (or 2..or
3...or 4...).
Here in the digital world, i see a cool performance in
Idol, or a nice Glee cover and it's too easy to point,
click and DL. I might love this purchase for a week and
then forget about it. A few hundred thousand
"point/clicks" happened that same night for the same
reason and you have another one-week top 40 hit.
It is an interesting new catagory that may need a new,
separate record to follow...JL238 this might be a good
idea to start your own database or book!
Re: Aaron ... i agree with your statement about the
current top 40 chart not being dominated by rap/hip hop,
but from 2002 - approx 2009 i found that to be exactly
the case. It was so skewed that way, to the extent that
i had lost faith in how they even compiled the chart
anymore. It got so i had little interest in the pop
chart, because it was missing "pop". (i.e. singing).
But i never stopped for a moment collecting new music! It
just happened most of my new music was not in the top 40.
I have discovered recently tho, that it's all different
now, a much, much better balance of new pop, rock,
alternative, dance, and hip hop going on, i am once again
finding it a more exciting time in pop...i can't keep up
with the new singles or bands i love, the above mentioned
Flo Rida tune included!
MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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My curiousity got the best of me, Mark, so I pulled the top 20 year-end airplay hits from 2002 to 2008. I have bolded the songs that I consider to be rap/hip-hop. (I don't consider R&B to fall into the same category as rap/hip-hop, so certainly there are a number of additional R&B songs that hit the pop chart. Also, there are a handful of songs that really are pop or R&B, even if the artist has traditionally performed hip-hop/rap.)
2002
1 Complicated Avril Lavigne 342 25 1
2 In The End Linkin Park 317 23 1
3 Dilemma Nelly w/ Kelly Rowland 313 21 1
4 A Thousand Miles Vanessa Carlton 288 23 1
5 Underneath It All No Doubt w/ Lady Saw 276 21 1
6 Lose Yourself Eminem 263 18 1
7 Don't Let Me Get Me Pink 262 20 1
8 Hot In Herre Nelly 258 19 1
9 Ain't It Funny Jennifer Lopez w/ Ja Rule & Cadillac Tah 244 20 1
10 Just Like A Pill Pink 239 18 2
11 Wherever You Will Go Calling 239 24 6
12 One Last Breath Creed 229 21 4
13 U Got It Bad Usher 228 18 3
14 Foolish Ashanti 227 17 2
15 Sk8er Boi Avril Lavigne 216 15 1
16 Without Me Eminem 216 17 1
17 All You Wanted Michelle Branch 216 20 2
18 Gotta Get Thru This Daniel Bedingfield 215 18 3
19 What's Luv Fat Joe w/ Ashanti 214 20 3
20 Hero Chad Kroeger w/ Josey Scott 212 17 2
2003
1 Here Without You 3 Doors Down 396 27 1
2 Where Is The Love Black Eyed Peas w/ Justin Timberlake 366 24 1
3 Hey Ya OutKast 324 22 1 (sung, not rapped, even though it's Outkast)
4 Bring Me To Life Evanescence w/ Paul McCoy 323 24 1
5 Miss Independent Kelly Clarkson 299 20 1
6 Shake Ya Tailfeather Nelly w/ P. Diddy & Murphy Lee 299 21 1
7 Rock Your Body Justin Timberlake 292 20 1
8 Unwell Matchbox Twenty 286 24 3
9 I'm With You Avril Lavigne 280 19 1
10 Ignition R. Kelly 278 20 1
11 Beautiful Christina Aguilera 274 19 1
12 When I'm Gone 3 Doors Down 274 23 1
13 Crazy In Love Beyonce w/ Jay-Z 272 18 1
14 In Da Club 50 Cent 267 19 1
15 Baby Boy Beyonce w/ Sean Paul 264 18 1
16 All I Have Jennifer Lopez w/ L.L. Cool J. 264 19 1
17 Can't Hold Us Down Christina Aguilera w/ Lil' Kim 225 17 3
18 Why Don't You & I Santana w/ Alex Band 221 21 3
19 Picture Kid Rock w/ Sheryl Crow 206 18 5
20 Get Busy Sean Paul 204 17 3
2004
1 Yeah Usher w/ Lil' Jon & Ludacris 385 31 1
2 The Reason Hoobastank 382 26 1
3 She Will Be Loved Maroon 5 343 24 1
4 This Love Maroon 5 341 25 1
5 Leave (Get Out) JoJo 318 22 1
6 Breakaway Kelly Clarkson 293 22 1
7 With You Jessica Simpson 286 21 1
8 The Way You Move OutKast w/ Sleepy Brown 284 20 1
9 Someday Nickelback 280 24 2
10 Pieces Of Me Ashlee Simpson 279 21 1
11 My Immortal Evanescence 278 22 2
12 Toxic Britney Spears 276 18 1
13 Over And Over Nelly w/ Tim McGraw 275 18 1
14 My Happy Ending Avril Lavigne 267 20 2
15 Suga Suga Baby Bash w/ Frankie J. 266 20 2
16 Burn Usher 249 17 2
17 Dip It Low Christina Milian w/ Fabolous 231 19 3
18 Naughty Girl Beyonce 216 16 2
19 Lose My Breath Destiny's Child 215 16 3
20 My Boo Usher w/ Alicia Keys 205 16 2
2005
1 Since U Been Gone Kelly Clarkson 431 28 1
2 Because Of You Kelly Clarkson 384 26 1
3 We Belong Together Mariah Carey 378 22 1
4 Behind These Hazel Eyes Kelly Clarkson 372 27 2
5 Run It Chris Brown w/ Juelz Santana 338 26 1
6 Boulevard Of Broken Dreams Green Day 307 22 1
7 1, 2 Step Ciara w/ Missy Elliott 288 20 1
8 You And Me Lifehouse 284 27 4
9 Photograph Nickelback 276 21 3
10 Don't Cha Pussycat Dolls w/ Busta Rhymes 273 24 3
11 Let Me Love You Mario 270 19 1
12 Pon De Replay Rihanna 269 20 2
13 Hollaback Girl Gwen Stefani 267 18 1
14 I Don't Want To Be Gavin DeGraw 264 23 1
15 Gold Digger Kanye West w/ Jamie Foxx 262 19 1
16 Let Me Go 3 Doors Down 253 24 2
17 Listen To Your Heart D.H.T. 248 18 1
18 Don't Phunk With My Heart Black Eyed Peas 246 19 3
19 Caught Up Usher 235 18 2
20 Shake It Off Mariah Carey 225 18 1
2006
1 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado w/ Timbaland 344 25 1
2 Far Away Nickelback 343 25 1
3 Hips Don't Lie Shakira w/ Wyclef Jean 325 22 1
4 Unwritten Natasha Bedingfield 324 26 2
5 Check On It Beyonce w/ Slim Thug 307 22 1
6 Buttons Pussycat Dolls w/ Snoop Dogg 302 24 1
7 My Love Justin Timberlake w/ T.I. 299 22 1
8 S.O.S. (Rescue Me) Rihanna 299 22 1
9 SexyBack Justin Timberlake w/ Timbaland 298 22 1
10 I Write Sins Not Tragedies Panic! At The Disco 298 24 2
11 Lips Of An Angel Hinder 297 22 1
12 Stickwitu Pussycat Dolls 295 20 1
13 Irreplaceable Beyonce 285 20 1
14 Temperature Sean Paul 284 21 1
15 How To Save A Life Fray 268 22 3
16 Too Little Too Late JoJo 254 21 2
17 Me & U Cassie 252 20 3
18 Walk Away Kelly Clarkson 248 23 5
19 Where'd You Go Fort Minor w/ Holly Brook 240 17 2
20 Over My Head (Cable Car) Fray 239 24 5
2007
1 Apologize Timbaland w/ OneRepublic 416 27 1
2 The Way I Are Timbaland w/ Keri Hilson 390 26 1
3 Big Girls Don't Cry Fergie 376 24 1
4 Say It Right Nelly Furtado 306 22 1
5 U + Ur Hand Pink 294 24 1
6 The Sweet Escape Gwen Stefani w/ Akon 286 22 2
7 Wait For You Elliott Yamin 282 23 4
8 What Goes Around Comes Around Justin Timberlake 278 19 1
9 Give It To Me Timbaland w/ Nelly Furtado & Justin Timberlake 277 23 3
10 Who Knew Pink 269 19 1
11 It's Not Over Daughtry 268 21 1
12 Glamorous Fergie w/ Ludacris 268 21 2
13 Cupid's Chokehold Gym Class Heroes w/ Patrick Stump 262 19 1
14 Summer Love Justin Timberlake 259 19 1
15 Makes Me Wonder Maroon 5 251 21 4
16 Umbrella Rihanna w/ Jay-Z 247 21 2
17 Stronger Kanye West 246 19 1
18 Hey There Delilah Plain White T's 244 19 2
19 Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') T-Pain w/ Yung Joc 237 21 4
20 Hate That I Love You Rihanna w/ Ne-Yo 233 20 3
2008
1 Low Flo Rida w/ T-Pain 357 25 1
2 Leavin' Jesse McCartney 344 24 1
3 Bleeding Love Leona Lewis 343 22 1
4 Forever Chris Brown 317 24 1
5 Take A Bow Rihanna 298 22 1
6 No Air Jordin Sparks w/ Chris Brown 294 22 2
7 Hot N Cold Katy Perry 292 22 1
8 No One Alicia Keys 276 20 1
9 So What Pink 272 18 1
10 Disturbia Rihanna 267 22 1
11 Love Song Sara Bareilles 265 20 1
12 With You Chris Brown 260 19 1
13 Clumsy Fergie 254 20 2
14 Love In This Club Usher w/ Young Jeezy 254 19 2
15 Closer Ne-Yo 245 18 2
16 Let It Rock Kevin Rudolf w/ Lil' Wayne 228 26 6
17 Live Your Life T.I. w/ Rihanna 227 16 1
18 I Kissed A Girl Katy Perry 226 16 2
19 See You Again Miley Cyrus 225 20 4
20 Better In Time Leona Lewis 222 20 3
Edited by aaronk on 21 September 2012 at 10:24pm
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Aaron Kannowski
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Hykker
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torcan wrote:
I really don't think anything should chart unless it's intended to be a "single" - not just an album track people download for a week or two then it disappears. |
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I see your point, and agree that these 1 or 2-week wonders do tend to clutter up the charts, but how do you keep track of what was "intended" to be a single? How would you handle legitimate hit songs that were never released as singles ("Stairway To Heaven", "Don't Speak", etc.)?
In this age of digital downloads, there really isn't any such thing as a single anymore.
aaronk wrote:
| My curiousity got the best of me, Mark, so I pulled the top 20 year-end airplay hits from 2002 to 2008. |
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What I found interesting was how few of these songs get any airplay today...maybe 2 or 3 from any given year.
Edited by Hykker on 23 September 2012 at 6:20pm
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aaronk
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Hykker wrote:
What I found interesting was how few of these songs get any airplay today...maybe 2 or 3 from any given year.
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That's true, but the CHR stations around here play very few songs older than about 6 months. Once in a while, I'll hear something from a year or two ago, but it's very infrequent. CHR would be about the only format that would really play any of those songs, and they just burn through the currents at 100 spins per week.
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JL328
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Hykker wrote:
torcan wrote:
I really don't think anything should chart unless it's intended to be a "single" - not just an album track people download for a week or two then it disappears. |
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I see your point, and agree that these 1 or 2-week wonders do tend to clutter up the charts, but how do you keep track of what was "intended" to be a single? How would you handle legitimate hit songs that were never released as singles ("Stairway To Heaven", "Don't Speak", etc.)?
In this age of digital downloads, there really isn't any such thing as a single anymore.
aaronk wrote:
| My curiousity got the best of me, Mark, so I pulled the top 20 year-end airplay hits from 2002 to 2008. |
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What I found interesting was how few of these songs get any airplay today...maybe 2 or 3 from any given year.
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Maybe charting only songs that are released to radio is the answer?
Per my original posts, I've spent a little bit of time over the last few days compiling the list of songs I was talking about (thanks in huge part to some chart data that was sent to me by another board member) and there are dozens of these "one-week wonders" that I had forgotten about and/or never even heard of.
I don't have a problem with the lead singles that debut top 10 based on hype and then die away quickly because of radio indifference after everyone who wants the song has bought it ("Can't Be Tamed" by Miley Cyrus and several Kanye West singles come to mind as examples). I think this is a result of the ease of iTunes/Amazon--- in the past, if I was pumped about the new Bruce Springsteen album, it might take me a few weeks to get up and physically go to the record store to buy that lead single. In the meantime, I can hear it on the radio. Nowadays, if I want the lead track from the upcoming Kesha album, all I need is three seconds and $1.29-- there is no reason to wait. Hence, everybody who wants it buys it the week it comes out unless it gets heavy radio play and gains new fans. This really is a function of the way we now consume music.
So, I don't have a problem with those tracks. What I am trying to track are the songs that never were released to radio at all. These are the outliers--- the countdown singles, the live performances, the tv show songs. Although there are truly some lost gems in here, there is something off about these songs appearing on the Hot 100. I guess maybe it's because they're not released to radio but, as others have mentioned, history is littered with examples of album cuts that were very popular and could have/should have made the charts. Maybe the Hot 100 needs a threshold for spins and sales? That is, to chart a song must meet a minimum number of sales (downloads) and a minimum number of spins (like, say, 1)? That would eliminate the Glee songs, the Grammy performances, the "countdown" singles, the re-release album cuts, the charity singles, and the AI and Voice live performances.
Also, to address an earlier point... it was my understanding that BB only counts iTunes sales toward the Hot 100 if the individual song is purchased. In other words, if somebody buys the album or "completes" the album, those serve as sales for purposes of the BB 200 but do not help the individual songs for purposes of the Hot 100. Is that right???
With respect to Taylor Swift, I think she had all those Hot 100 hits by virtue of different people buying the individual tracks. For example, she released deluxe, platinum, etc. editions of both Fearless and Speak Now. Well, everybody already had those albums, so nobody "bought" or "completed" the deluxe/platinum editions--- rather, they just needed to buy the new tracks, which they did. So, since those tracks were purchased individually (as opposed to part of the album), those sales all counted toward the BB Hot 100 even though these were all album tracks that would never see the light of radio. I'm sure Taylor's people knew what they were doing and the way they structured the releaseof the deluxe editions guaranteed that people would buy the songs individually and get them into the Top 40 for one week before disappearing into the ether.
Now that I think about it, I guess what bothers me is that some day 25 years from now, I'll be looking through a Whitburn book and reminiscing over songs I've forgotten. I'll get to Taylor Swift and see "Jump Then Fall" and wonder whether I'm going senile because I can't remember a song that charted so high. I feel like I either want to know/remember this song (which is why I'm trying to compile the list) or it shouldn't have been in the Top 40 to begin with.
Edited by JL328 on 25 September 2012 at 12:06pm
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aaronk
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JL328 wrote:
| Now that I think about it, I guess what bothers me is that some day 25 years from now, I'll be looking through a Whitburn book and reminiscing over songs I've forgotten. I'll get to Taylor Swift and see "Jump Then Fall" and wonder whether I'm going senile because I can't remember a song that charted so high. I feel like I either want to know/remember this song (which is why I'm trying to compile the list) or it shouldn't have been in the Top 40 to begin with. |
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Yeah, I definitely see your point on this. But then again, one of the columns in the Whitburn book will tell you that the song only charted for a week or two total, and you'll know right away that this was one of those short-lived sales-based peakers.
This is also why I tend to look at both airplay and Hot 100 charts when I'm researching hits of the past.
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Aaron Kannowski
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EdisonLite
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aaronk wrote:
| I do still listen to a TON of current music. |
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I listen to current music as well, and always have. Even though I grew up in the '70s, even in the past decade I usually find 125+ current songs each year that I really like and want to add to my iPod and buy on CD. Granted, during some years, many of these songs are indie releases or major label flops or UK hits that weren't even released in the US but I do find a good 125+ current recordings every year. And while many of the songs are non-Billboard hits, THIS YEAR my overlap with the US top 10 has been the highest it's been since ... probably 1998 or 1999! I, too, agree with the assessments that pop music (as we knew it) - with strong melodies - is back again this year! And I hope it stays.
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Paul Haney
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The sales hits keep on comin'...Taylor Swift debuts at #7 on the Hot 100 with "Begin Again" and the new single "Red" is already #1 on iTunes and poised for a big debut next week.
Also, EVERY cut from the new Mumford & Sons album is either on the Hot 100 or Bubbling Under chart this week!
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JL328
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| Posted: 04 October 2012 at 7:23pm | IP Logged
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I understand the Taylor Swift songs charting. Those are
promotional/countdown/buzz singles that are being released one at a time
to create hype for Swift's upcoming album. There have been several other
such countdown singles to chart over the last few years.
But how are the Mumford & Sons songs charting? I don't understand why
people would be buying those songs individually rather than just buying the
album.
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aaronk
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That's the beauty of iTunes. You don't have to buy the whole album. You can choose your favorites and make your own album.
Surely there will be several people who buy the whole album, but I'm sure there will be others that just pick a handful of songs.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Brian W.
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JL328 wrote:
I understand the Taylor Swift songs charting. Those are promotional/countdown/buzz singles that are being released one at a time to create hype for Swift's upcoming album. There have been several other
such countdown singles to chart over the last few years.
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Often the "countdown" singles can re-chart later, too. Justin Bieber's current hit, "As Long as You Love Me," was a countdown single that is now a traditional hit. So was Taylor Swift's "Fearless" -- it was released as a countdown single with an all-graphic cover, in advance of the album, then later charted in its album version:
(By the way, I really like the term "countdown single." I've always wondered how to describe these things.) :)
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Non-Radio Hits and Promotional Singles
