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edtop40
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| Posted: 06 July 2008 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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my commercial 45 issued as scoti bros 04871 states a run time on the label as 4:13 but actually runs 4:10 and is identical to the version on the cd below
(S) (4:10) Scotti Bros. 75408 Greatest Hits
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edtop40
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NightAire
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| Posted: 13 February 2012 at 11:47pm | IP Logged
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Does anybody have a preferred CD source for this song? My copy is from Time Life's "Sounds of the Eighties 1985-1986" and sounds fine straight off the CD, but after going through my internet radio station's audio processing and the data compression to stream it, the sound gurgles during the quiet parts.
I'm assuming it's just something weird with the way my copy works with my processing... but I know some of the people here like CFTP are really good about discovering "this one is a digital clone of this one, and that one is a re-eq'd version of that one, and that one runs .3% slower than this one.."
I thought if somebody has a preference for another one (maybe off the original "Vital Signs?"), I could try getting a copy of it and see if my "gurgle" goes away, or if it's something in the master recording that's driving my audio chain crazy.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer! This is a perplexing and annoying problem.
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Gene Savage
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Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 14 February 2012 at 9:09am | IP Logged
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Funny you should ask! I haven't done a direct head-to-
head comparison, but I have some older notes about this
song.
Your version off Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties
Vol. 12 1985-1986 (1995) is a differently EQ'd
digital clone of Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock
Hits Vol. 5 From The Heart (1992), which is a little
too loud and clips a bit. I don't think too highly of
most of those Priority collections. Some are thought to
have a Waring noise reduction process on them - don't
know if that would be the source of your noise or not. I
think that Madacy's Rock On 1985 Walking On
Sunshine (1998) also uses the Priority disc as its
source, but I'd need to confirm.
A better bet would be the Scotti Brothers Greatest
Hits (1993), which is quite a nice-sounding disc. I
use it as the source for all my Survivor tracks. There's
a digital clone (1 dB louder) on Time-Life's Guitar
Rock Vol. 27 Power Ballads (1999) and a differently
EQ'd digital clone on Time-Life's Body Talk Vol. 12 By
Candlelight (1997). Any of these should sound good.
I'd be very curious to know if the GH-based versions of
the song clear up the problem for you, or if they still
show the same noise.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 14 February 2012 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
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I'll give the greatest hits version a try! I shied away from it, only because so often they are "remastered" with all that lovely digital clipping that's been so popular for the past decade... but since it's from 1993... maybe it'll be OK!
I'll plan on posting an update when I get the track replaced; thanks for the input!
(I agree with your opinion of Priority discs: BLEAH. For the most part, at least. They've tended to sound like CDs of tape transfers of the recordings... maybe like a CD of the cassette master tape or something.)
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Gene Savage
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Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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995wlol
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| Posted: 14 February 2012 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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I would recommend the 1993 Scotti Bros Greatest Hits disc over the original Vital Signs CD. There is no over-compression or clipping on Hits. The sound on my Vital Signs CD is very thin (it is an early Japan for US pressing, so perhaps the US pressings sounded better).
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 14 February 2012 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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I think we're all in agreement about the 1993 GH disc -
very nice-sounding, no clipping, no bad EQ, no excessive
compression/limiting. And I think it could be bought
pretty cheaply nowadays.
I gave a listen to both the Priority and GH discs, and I
noticed that the piano is mixed with an odd phasing on
both. The left and right channels of the piano are
partially out of phase, so that when mixed to mono the
levels on the piano are a bit lower than the centered
vocals. I didn't notice a substantial difference between
the discs when I mixed them both to mono. Not sure if
the out-of-phasiness could confuse the
compressor/limiter, but it might do something odd if the
L and R volumes are each larger than the L+R mono volume.
Very curious to hear what the GH disc does for you...
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NightAire
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| Posted: 14 February 2012 at 9:56pm | IP Logged
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I got a copy of the disc tonight, and you guys are right: it looks GREAT in Adobe Audition.
Normally I put my audio files through both "centering" and phase correction... although I might not have been doing that when I made the original rip.
However, since I had problems with it before, I have done NOTHING to this file other than maximize it to 100% volume on the peaks.
You may be on to something about the phasing issues. Technically I have a phase corrector on my chain (Stereo Tool), but if the phase varries, it might be "fluttering" back and forth, creating that "gurgle."
It should play in the next day or two; I'll let you know how it goes!
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Gene Savage
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Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 15 February 2012 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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One of the first 30 CDs I ever bought was Survivor's Vital Signs. My copy is a U.S. pressing and I've always thought the sound quality on this disc is excellent.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 01 March 2012 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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FINALLY got to hear this song from start to finish on my stream; for the most part, the annoying gurgle seems to be gone, using the version from the greatest hits CD. I'm now wondering if the "Vital Signs" version might clean it up even further; I might try both copies and see what happens.
There was still a tiny bit of gurgle in the opening just as he's singing, "...I was always reaching..." but you had to be listening pretty close. Another tiny bit of gurgle as they're wrapping up the lyrics right at the end.
My suspicion now is that I've found a song that contains primary tones, harmonics and sub-harmonics at the same time that are just difficult for the mp3 codec to figure out what to keep and what to throw away.
...Maybe I should just increase my encoding rate! :)
Anyway, THANK YOU for everyone's help; sorry this response was so delayed. I think we've done about all we can do for now.
(Just for clarity, I want to specify that the "gurgle" comes from listening to my 96 kbps mp3 stream encoded with the latest version of LAME, after running through the multi-band compressor section of Stereo Tool (set extremely slow) and Sound Solution 1.31 set fairly aggressively [everything but the Stereo Expander, Clipper, & pre-emphesis are active]. This is followed by a look-ahead independent channel peak limiter which keeps peaks to -1.75 db into the encoder.)
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Gene Savage
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Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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aaronk
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| Posted: 01 March 2012 at 9:48pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, anything at 96kbps is bound to have a lot of artifacts, but I'm sure it saves on bandwidth for streaming.
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Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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Gene - Interesting to hear about the streaming artifacts
with just this one song.
Many, many years ago, in the early days of streaming, my
station had a 96 kbps stream, and the song "The Legend Of
Wooley Swamp" by the Charlie Daniels Band always used to
give me headaches. Something about the hi-hat in this song
really confused the encoder. We never figured out why, and
now that we have a 256 kbps stream, it's not much of an
issue. (Instead, we just run up the data plan bills of all
our listeners!)
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NightAire
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
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ROTFL!!! (Can they hold a connection at 256k? Wow... that's about a "dream-rate" for me, since double-blind tests show 99.999% of people can't tell the difference between 256k or linear... I'd love to even bump up to 112k, but I'm afraid of losing my office & mobile audience...)
I play "...Legend..." at Halloween... I'll have to listen closely this year!! :)
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Gene Savage
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Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, we were using only about 6% of our capacity, so we
thought we'd go overboard with sound quality. Haven't
heard any complaints yet.
(For a sample, you can peruse the recent archives at
www.crapfromthepast.com. Since last summer, I've been
ripping the live stream and editing out my show to form
those mp3 files.)
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: survivor "the search is over"
