| Author |
|
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
As most folks who've been here awhile already know, I've never been a huge fan of vinyl, and as a result, I only own maybe about 100-150 45s. There are only a handful of artists that I collect on 45; I also occasionally buy hits that exist only on 45 (i.e., when those singles have/had no parent album). Therefore, my knowledge of "45 versions", label designs/variations, pressing plants, etc. - even from my favorite eras, the '70s & '80s - is quite limited, so I'm hoping some of the "45 experts" here will come forward w/ their extensive knowledge in this area (Yah Shure??? MCT1??? jimct??? edtop40???), and help me solve this puzzle... :-)
This past summer, I paid a visit to the warehouse of what I believe is the largest seller of 45s in the U.S., and went through all of their Rick Springfield 45s, among a few other artists. They must've had about 20 copies of his first hit, "Speak to the Sky" (Capitol 3340), which was released in July of '72, and of course peaked in the top 20 that October. Although I've owned a few copies of the "STTS" 45 for several years now, frankly, as I was comparing the 20 or so copies they had side-by-side, I was shocked to find they had not two, not three, not four, but FIVE different label designs/pressings/variations among them! I went ahead and bought one copy of each, and have them right here as I type this. I wish I had the ability to post scans of them all here, but I'll go ahead and describe them as best I can. ALL are U.S. pressings, and ALL are commercial/stock copies (w/ the song "Why?" on the B-side):
#1) * label: orange inner ring, red outer ring; Capitol "target" logo at left
* "STEREO" in small, thin print just above "target" logo
* "Recorded in England" just below "target" logo on A-side; no mention of parent album anywhere on A-side label
* "P 1972 Capitol Records, Inc." curved w/ bottom label edge under RS's name
* fine print about Capitol Records curved around bottom half of label
* etching in A-side run-out groove: "S-45-78477-F-3." (machine-stamped "1" just beyond)
* etching in B-side run-out groove: "S-45-78479-F-3." (machine-stamped "1" just beyond)
#2) * label: orange inner ring, red outer ring; Capitol "target" logo at left
* "STEREO" in small, thin print just above "target" logo
* "(from the LP 'BEGINNINGS' ST-11047)" just below "target" logo on A-side; "Recorded in England" moved to lower right of A-side label
* "P 1972 Capitol Records, Inc." curved w/ bottom label edge under RS's name
* fine print about Capitol Records curved around bottom half of label
* etching in A-side run-out groove: "S-45-78477-F-3." (machine-stamped "1" just beyond)
* etching in B-side run-out groove: "S-45-78479-F-3." (machine-stamped "4" just beyond)
#1 and #2 are identical in every way - all the way down to the etching in the run-out groove, inc. the handwriting itself(!) - except for the mention of the parent album on the A-side label of #2, and the "Recorded in England" notation being moved to the right...
#3) * label: orange inner ring, red outer ring; Capitol "target" logo at left
* "STEREO" in large, bold print just above "target" logo
* "Recorded in England" at lower right of label; no mention of parent album anywhere on A-side label
* "P 1972 Capitol Records, Inc." in horizontal line under RS's name
* fine print about Capitol Records curved around bottom half of label
* etching in A-side run-out groove: "S45-X78477-F2"
* etching in B-side run-out groove: "S45-X-78479-F2 #2"
#4) * label: orange inner ring, red outer ring; Capitol "target" logo at left
* "STEREO" in large, bold print just above "target" logo
* "Recorded in England" at lower right of label; but now "(From the LP 'BEGINNINGS' ST-11047)" appears just below "target" logo on A-side
* "P 1972 Capitol Records, Inc." in horizontal line under RS's name
* fine print about Capitol Records curved around bottom half of label
* etching in A-side run-out groove: "S45-X78477-F2 #3"
* etching in B-side run-out groove: "S45-X-78479-F2 #3"
#3 and #4 are identical in every way - again, even the handwriting in the etching in the run-out groove matches, although it's different from #1 & #2 - except for the mention of the parent album on the A-side label of #4. However, the "STEREO" notation on these two is different from #1 & #2, as is the "Capitol Records" notation...
#5) * label: solid salmon; "Capitol" in large, gold print at bottom - NO "target" logo anywhere
* NO "STEREO" notation anywhere
* "Recorded in England" at lower right of label; "(from the LP 'BEGINNINGS' ST-11047)" at lower left
* "P 1972 Capitol Records, Inc." in horizontal line under RS's name
* fine print about Capitol Records curved around top half of label (in gold)
* etching in A-side run-out groove: "S45-X78477-F2 #3"
* etching in B-side run-out groove: "S45-X-78479-F2 #3"
#5 is clearly the oddball of the bunch - the label on this one is extremely different from the other four. However, the handwriting in the etching in the run-out groove is actually IDENTICAL to #3 & #4!
All five have a printed running time of "2:42" (w/ an intro of ":05"), and a printed matrix number of "(S45-X78477)" on the A-side; B-side matrix number on all five is "(S45-X78479)". All five also feature the classic "serrated edge" that runs around the center labels of Capitol 45s from that time (as discussed in an earlier thread on this board re: Bob Seger's 1969 hit, "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man"). I have yet to play any of these on my turntable, but I assume the version (i.e., length/mix) on all five is the same... :-)
So I'd love to know the following:
* Is it unusual to find this many pressings/label variations on Capitol 45s from the early '70s for the SAME song??? (I do know of a couple on RS's later Columbia & Chelsea 45s of the '70s, but have yet to find ANY variations on any of his '80s 45s for RCA, w/ the exception of "I've Done Everything for You"!)
* Can anyone possibly tell me what pressing plants these came from???
* Or even what order these may have been released in, perhaps to the nearest month or season???
* And how about rarity - I take it #5 is probably the toughest??? (First copy I've ever seen w/ the salmon label, and it was the only one in the whole bunch at that warehouse I found it at...)
* Anyone here have an additional pressing variation for "STTS" not described above???
It is also worth noting that the catalog no. for RS's 1972 "Beginnings" LP is incorrect on all five 45s - the prefix was actually "SMAS-", and not "ST-". In addition, I own several original 1972 pressings of the "Beginnings" LP, and I've discovered that it exists w/ both lime-green and red center labels, each w/ the "target" logo. (NOT to be confused w/ the 1981 re-issue that featured forest-green labels, the "building" logo, and a new catalog no. of "SN-16251" - not to mention the cover was no longer a gatefold!) Could anyone tell me when Capitol used the lime-green labels on their LPs, and when they switched to red (or was it vice-versa)???
Any info appreciated in all this! Thanks in advance... :-)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1317
|
| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Nice finds, '80s!! I can tell you right off that your #5 variation is a later pressing. Capitol switched from the red/orange target logo to the salmon-with-Capitol-logo-on-bottom design during the summer of 1972.
My stock copy of "STTS" (which I bought when it was current) is of the red/orange target design. It's from the Jacksonville, Illinois plant (the closest, geographically) and other than the machine-stamped "0" Jacksonville designation, the rest is all hand-etched in the deadwax:
78477-1-3340-F1 #1 (That's it. No "ST" or "X".)
In all honesty, I don't think there's enough of a collectors demand for Rick Springfield 45s that any one pressing would be worth appreciably more than the next, but you never know.
Here's some very useful pressing plant identification info that was posted on the Steve Hoffman forums a few years ago. James Glennon had posted these notes about Capitol Records:
Capitol Records was pressing records in Scranton, Pennsylvania, in Los Angeles, California, and in Jacksonville, Illinois. In the early 1970s, they opened a pressing plant in Winchester, Virginia, that eventually replaced the Scranton, Pennsylvania plant.
Pressing plant indicators:
1. A machine stamped triangle with the initials IAM indicates that the record was pressed at the Scranton, Pennsylvania plant.
2. A star (*) indicates that the record was pressed at the Los Angeles, California plant.
3. An 0, either stamped or hand written, indicates that the record was pressed at the Jacksonville, Illinois plant.
4. A line that branches into a V at the end (looks like a long stemmed wine glass) was supposed to be a Winchester rifle and indicates that the record was pressed at the Winchester, Virginia plant.
From all appearances, it seems as though you have copies from several of the Capitol plants, although not from Jacksonville. My guess is that the copies with no LP citation came first, the LP designated ones followed, and the all-salmon was the last, while the single was still selling, but after the label design had changed and at least one plant had already exhausted its supply of the older labels.
You do have your information about the Capitol LP labels in the right order. I replaced most of my Beatles albums in 1970; several were still on the 1969 "Capitol Industries" color band logo, while others were already on that ugly lime green design. I wasn't buying many LPs at the time - college and 45s took priority - and the next Capitol LP I did buy was Leo Kottke's Mudlark in early 1971. By then, the lime green had been replaced by a deep reddish-orange:
Because four plants were in operation for a short time until Scranton was sold in 1972, label variations did occur. It's apparent that the supply of the older lime green labels had not been exhausted at all plants by the time some of your Beginnings albums were pressed.
Promo 45s from a company like Capitol were much more likely to have been pressed at only one plant. Unlike the varying transportation costs associated with getting stock 45s to retail and rack jobbers nationwide, it cost Capitol the same amount of money to mail a package of new 45 releases from Hollywood to L.A. as it did to Portland, Maine.
Hope this helps!
Edited by Yah Shure on 20 November 2008 at 7:30pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
edtop40
MusicFan
Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4996
|
| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 9:04am | IP Logged
|
|
|
This past summer, I paid a visit to the warehouse of what I believe is the largest seller of 45s in the U.S., and went through all of their Rick Springfield 45s, among a few other artists. They must've had about 20 copies of his first hit, "Speak to the Sky" (Capitol 3340), which was released in July of '72, and of course peaked in the top 20 that October. Although I've owned a few copies of the "STTS" 45 for several years now, frankly, as I was comparing the 20 or so copies they had side-by-side, I was shocked to find they had not two, not three, not four, but FIVE different label
80's.....where is this wharehouse you refer to in this post......i'd love to make a road trip this summer??....not the princeton record exchange??
__________________
edtop40
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 02 July 2011 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
edtop40 wrote:
| 80's.....where is this wharehouse you refer to in this post......i'd love to make a road trip this summer??....not the princeton record exchange?? |
|
|
Val Shively's R&B Records in Upper Darby, PA (western suburb of Philadelphia). Here's a link to a discussion on his warehouse from the Steve Hoffman forum: Val Shively's R&B Records But be warned: As a few of the Hoffman forum members also indicate, you'll need "special permission" (as I got) in order to be allowed back behind the counter, into the "warehouse" section of the building - otherwise, you'll be relegated to the very small area at the front of the store where you're free to browse all you want, but I guarantee as a hardcore collector like myself, you'll find little or nothing of interest! I recommend visiting on a day (or time of day) when business is slow, and they don't have to watch a dozen customers at one time. He also has a huge mail-order business, although I've never bought from him via that route. And I can vouch for the Hoffman members' analysis of his personality as well; I first visited his warehouse some 12-14 years ago (late '90s), and was completely insulted when I made an inquiry at the counter! Needless to say, I didn't spend a dime there that day (walked out after less than five minutes), and vowed never to go back - or at least, not for a long time, anyway. Well, a full 10 years had passed, and I was in the immediate area again in '08 - and I saw that they were still in business - so I decided to give the place another shot (things went a little better). But believe me, the number of 45s there (all eras and genres) will make your head spin! So show them that you're serious & knowledgable, and when you walk in, you should probably have a set list of which artists/titles you're looking for - otherwise, it's the kinda place collectors like us could kill an entire week in, and still not get through it all (and they won't let you stay back there that long anyway, since they don't let too many folks behind the counter to begin with, so use whatever time they give you wisely!)...
As for the Princeton Record Exchange in Princeton, NJ, yes, I've been there, and do like it. First set foot in that store about 15 years ago, in the mid '90s. While living on Long Island, I went out there maybe 3-4 times before leaving the NYC area in '01. Now that I live some six hours away from it, I've been back only a couple of times in the last 10 years, but can say that I've always left there w/ a stack of stuff. In fact, I'll actually be back in the NYC area this coming week, and wouldn't mind paying them another visit, so we'll see what happens...
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
edtop40
MusicFan
Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4996
|
| Posted: 03 July 2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
thanks for the heads up.....i may look into their mail order biz if they're as "user friendly" as you indicate......thx....as far as princeton record exchange......i'm planing on making a trip there soon with my son, 16, who has gotten into music/records big time in the last year or so.......edtop40
__________________
edtop40
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 13 July 2011 at 3:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
80smusicfreak wrote:
| As for the Princeton Record Exchange in Princeton, NJ, yes, I've been there, and do like it. First set foot in that store about 15 years ago, in the mid '90s. While living on Long Island, I went out there maybe 3-4 times before leaving the NYC area in '01. Now that I live some six hours away from it, I've been back only a couple of times in the last 10 years, but can say that I've always left there w/ a stack of stuff. In fact, I'll actually be back in the NYC area this coming week, and wouldn't mind paying them another visit, so we'll see what happens... |
|
|
edtop40 wrote:
| as far as princeton record exchange......i'm planing on making a trip there soon with my son, 16, who has gotten into music/records big time in the last year or so.......edtop40 |
|
|
Just got back from my latest road/buying trip a couple days ago. For nearly two days (last Thursday & Friday), I covered a good chunk of the indie record stores in northern & central NJ, and did make it as far south as Princeton Record Exchange, as I'd hoped. It's been a few years, but it's definitely still a great place for both vinyl & CDs (tons of stock and turnover), and if the customer traffic while I was there is any indication, they're still doing very well. Left there w/ some decent finds, as always...
On the other hand, I was pretty disappointed w/ Vintage Vinyl in Fords, another NJ store that has always been hyped as well, as it's pretty spacious, and even has a built-in stage at the back for the pretty frequent band performances and signings that they host (be sure to take some time to check out all the pics on their walls when you visit). While it's nice to see they're still around (it had also been awhile since I'd been there), it doesn't really cater to collectors, and I wound up finding only five or six CDs for my time...
Oh, and lastly, R.I.P. to Soundtraks, Ltd. in Huntington, NY, out there on the north shore of "Lawn Guyland" - seems they closed up shop all of about two weeks ago (end of June), so yet another one gone! (*sigh*) (Was in there all the time when I lived on L.I. in the '90s; luckily, I made it out there less than a year ago...)
___________________________________________________________
Must-play '80s song of the day (chart hit, but not necessarily top 40 - and if you don't already have it, track it down, lol):
"She gave me a wink/
Before I could stop to think/
I was jumpin' in the seat beside her/
She put the pedal to the metal/
Burnin' rubber all over the road"
(clues: 1984; male vocals)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
edtop40
MusicFan
Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4996
|
| Posted: 13 July 2011 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
was that store on new york ave right in town?.....
__________________
edtop40
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 13 July 2011 at 8:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
edtop40 wrote:
| was that store on new york ave right in town?..... |
|
|
Yep. In fact, at the peak of music retail in the mid '90s, Huntington village had a total of FIVE indie stores, all within blocks (i.e., walking distance) of each other - the most of any town on L.I. Now w/ the closure of Soundtraks, Huntington is down to ZERO! :-( Hard to believe, but there are now only about a dozen indie stores left in Nassau & Suffolk Cos. combined! (There were 40-50 all of 15 years ago...)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MMathews
MusicFan
Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978
|
| Posted: 16 July 2011 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
When Music Den (Commack) and its other 3 locations/names all closed at once in '02, i knew the end was upon us.
So, Ron! I took your advice, i didn't know those lyrics, so I googled. I tracked down your 80's song of the day. So, somehow, even though the band Duke Jupiter was from NY, i missed this band on our rock stations, or even on MTV which apparently their 2nd single (lyrics above) was played on - i watched - but i do NOT recall them!! The Mrs. doesnt either! This band went on tour with some big names too! I just don't get how we missed them.
Either way, thanks for the addition of a great lost band to our library!
-MM
Edited by MMathews on 16 July 2011 at 10:49pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 21 July 2011 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MMathews wrote:
| When Music Den (Commack) and its other 3 locations/names all closed at once in '02, i knew the end was upon us. |
|
|
Yep, up until '01, I was a regular in the Music Den stores, too - particularly the one in Commack, as it was the closest, and IMO, the best. Since I've always been passionate about tracking/visiting record stores, I saw the writing on the wall in the late '90s; the peak was around 1995-96. By '02, when the Music Den stores closed, I'd been reading about music sales being in decline here in the U.S. in "Billboard" for a few years already. Not only that, by then the internet had gained a solid foothold, and plenty of other stores on L.I. and in, ahem, "the city" (as you folks say), had already disappeared. The two Music Arcade stores in Hicksville and Huntington Station (previously known as "Titus Oaks Record Exchange") were favorites of mine as well; they also shuttered their doors in the early to mid '00s. The real shocker for me was when the two seemingly well-run chain titans - Tower Records and Virgin Megastore - both succumbed in the last five years (following in the footsteps of other NYC-area chains such as Nobody Beats the Wiz, HMV, Incredible Universe, etc.). To stand in the heart of Times Square and NOT see the Virgin Megastore there (as I did all of two weeks ago) is still just a head-shaker. Oh, and I worked for Tower a long time ago, so they were also close to my heart. Hard to believe these closures have all been happening so relatively quickly... (*sigh*)
It's Gregg, actually... :-)
Quote:
| I took your advice, i didn't know those lyrics, so I googled. I tracked down your 80's song of the day. |
|
|
Hmmm, gotta start picking songs whose lyrics CAN'T be easily found through Google, lol...
Quote:
So, somehow, even though the band Duke Jupiter was from NY, i missed this band on our rock stations, or even on MTV which apparently their 2nd single (lyrics above) was played on - i watched - but i do NOT recall them!! The Mrs. doesnt either! This band went on tour with some big names too! I just don't get how we missed them.
Either way, thanks for the addition of a great lost band to our library!
-MM |
|
|
As for Duke Jupiter, at the time of the band's early-to-mid '80s heyday, I lived in SoCal, and never heard them on the radio there; like you, I don't recall ever seeing their videos on MTV, either. However, I DID see their albums in stores, and remember tracking "Little Lady" up the "Hot 100" - and the song's parent album, White Knuckle Ride - in "Billboard" from week to week back in '84, so I knew of their existence. In the early '90s, I ran across a used cassette of White Knuckle Ride, and remembered it had been a moderate hit several years earlier. The price was right, so I decided to buy it, and that was my introduction to their music; I liked "Little Lady" from the first time I played it...
Sounds like you also looked up the band on Wikipedia; their page there is, sadly, very brief and quite frankly, has several errors (e.g., the Motown subsidiary that they recorded their last two albums for was actually Morocco, and NOT Rare Earth; their first three were on Mercury, and their 4th and 5th were on CBS-distributed Coast to Coast!). Also, it should be clarified that "Little Lady" was actually their second CHART hit (after 1982's "I'll Drink to You", another great song), but as it was off their sixth album, it was in reality about their 10th single overall...
Over the last 20 years, I've since added both Coast to Coast albums (Duke Jupiter 1, You Make it Look Easy) and their second for Morocco (The Line of Your Fire) to my collection on cassette; the first three on Mercury are extremely rare. In 2007, I decided to do some additional digging, and see what (if anything) of theirs was available on CD. Well, it turned out to my (pleasant) surprise, that sometime in the late '90s/early '00s the band itself had assembled a 17-track hits CD that they titled The Band Played On...Twenty Years of Duke Jupiter! It was being sold exclusively through the group's official web site, so of course I immediately ordered a copy. At that time (June of '07), I e-mailed the site owner to let them know that my order was on its way (sent a M.O.), while also praising the CD and web site's existence, telling them about my music collection, and how/when I'd become a fan. The very next day, I actually received a personal e-mail back from DJ guitarist (and founding member) Greg Walker, stating:
Quote:
Hi Gregg,
Glad you found us! You must have an impressive collection. Our albums are really hard to come by—they were only released once and we were done making albums in 1985, just before the record companies started offering CDs. So, the CDs on our site are ones we made—you'll never see our CDs anywhere else—our record companies never offered them as CDs.
Anyways... thanks for your continued support!!!
Greg Walker |
|
|
Fortunately, the CD is still available to this day, for $20 + $3 shipping. All recordings are the originals, and it covers their entire output from 1978-85, on all three labels (and of course, it includes both of their chart hits)! Link to site (and BTW, Duke Jupiter 1 and White Knuckle Ride are both also available on CD from them): Duke Jupiter So if you (and anyone else here) are newly discovering this band and like what you hear, why not support some of these more obscure (and in some cases, undeservedly less successful) acts by ordering their stuff directly from them, or even attending a show??? Regrettably, I missed DJ's "final" reunion concert exactly a year ago (apparently it drew 10,000+); they did indeed tour w/ many big names back in the day...
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Rick Springfield - "Speak to the Sky"
