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Gary
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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On the promo 45 for Bobby Brown's "On Our Own", one side is the commercial 45 version is called with rap. The other side of the promo 45 is a version without rap that clocks in at 4:13. This should be noted in the database.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
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Gary, the commercial 45 is identical to the dj 45 with the "A" side clearly indicated as the side with rap. You still think the flip side should be noted in the database?
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 9:48pm | IP Logged
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Sure, why not? You've noted the DJ-only versions of numerous songs in the database, most recently Fergie's "London Bridge."
Edited by Brian W. on 27 November 2006 at 9:50pm
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edtop40
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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i think that bit of info SHOULD NOT be in the db....for what it's worth...
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 11:16pm | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| i think that bit of info SHOULD NOT be in the db....for what it's worth... |
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Why, exactly, Ed?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 11:22pm | IP Logged
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Why wouldn't you include it, Pat? Almost every DJ 45 you have noted contains information about the flip side or alternate versions.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 27 November 2006 at 11:46pm | IP Logged
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I too am puzzled... I've always thought any DJ edits or versions of Top 40 hits played on pop radio stations were duly noted in the database, regardless of which side they appear on a DJ 45.
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jimct
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| Posted: 28 November 2006 at 2:05am | IP Logged
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As much as I concern myself with promo-only versions, I do follow Pat's thinking about what may make THIS particular case unusual. It is rare to find 2 distinct mixes of the SAME song on a commercially available 45. In 98% of cases, only ONE mix of a song was available on a stock 45. Chart info shows the "with rap" version to be the hit; therefore, the other side, the "no rap" version, even though it's the same song, could be technically relegated to "non-hit, flip side" status. Almost all unique DJ 45 versions were not commercially available. Since these DJ 45 versions often got radio airplay, and people couldn't buy them in stores, details on them aren't always easy to come by. So, when such a DJ version surfaces on a CD, Pat HAS to provide the DJ copy version background info - it explains to us HOW it is a legitimate and original version, albeit a promo. To me, "On My Own" seems to fall in the same category as Blow Monkeys' "Digging Your Scene", where the U.S. and U.K. mixes appear on both the stock AND promo 45s. Billboard/Whitburn show the U.S. mix as the "hit" side. Therefore, the U.K. mix could be viewed simply as a non-hit flip, just as the no-rap Bobby Brown could be. Pat, my opinion on this: Since the "no rap" On My Own, and the U.K. "Digging Your Scene" flips both DO appear on their promo 45s, radio airplay for EITHER version was possible; both were offered as legitimate, "original release" versions. If the "with rap" On My Own was the ONLY version found on the promo 45, or the U.S. "Digging Your Scene" was the ONLY version found on that promo 45, then to me, excluding those stock 45 "alternate" versions, if I were you, becomes much easier; they weren't presented to radio as a viable airplay option. But they WERE, in both cases. That these mixes ALSO show up on the stock 45, probably ADDS to how highly thought of, and how legitimate the labels considered them to be. But, for the many folks simply confused by my babble, all of this hair-splitting might be "clear as mud", and I can certainly see how many would simply feel that the more version details you provide, the better.
Edited by jimct on 28 November 2006 at 2:08am
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Gary
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| Posted: 28 November 2006 at 3:05am | IP Logged
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Pat Downey wrote:
| Gary, the commercial 45 is identical to the dj 45 with the "A" side clearly indicated as the side with rap. You still think the flip side should be noted in the database? |
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Pat I didn't have the commercial 45, only the promo. But I heard a lot of the my area's Top 40/Mainstream stations playing this no rap version when it was a hit. And TM Century only provides the no rap version on their radio Golddiscs. I just feel this should be noted in the database as the no rap version maybe the only one that some people are familiar with. Just my own opinion!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 2:17am | IP Logged
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I just listened to my TM Century disc that has the so-called "No Rap" version. Unless the 45 is different, the version on my TM Century disc is merely the LP version faded early. There is, indeed, "rap" at the (2:40) mark, just like the LP version.
Can anyone with the 45 verify if there is or isn't rap starting at (2:40)? I'm wondering if this is a TM Century goof, or if the "no rap" version actually does have rap.
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jimct
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| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 4:50am | IP Logged
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Since we worked off the promo CD single in 1989, Aaron, I just pulled it to check its contents (CD45-17867)
1-7" Version With Rap (listed time 4:30; actual time 4:29; "too hot to handle" rap starts at (2:53))
2-7" Version Without Rap (listed time 4:15; actual time 4:13; "too hot to handle" rap starts at (2:40))
3-LP Version (listed and actual time 4:53; "too hot to handle" rap starts at (2:41))
If that 2:40-ish "Bobby-Babble" is indeed the "rap" they are referring to (and Bobby's rapping was often indistinguishable from his vocals, I must say), it IS in fact included on all 3 of the versions, making their label wording senseless. But there ARE :15 seconds plus timing differences between each of the three cuts. The "rap start" on cuts 2/3 DOES start a full second later on cut 3, and a full :12-13 seconds later on cut 1. Something else MUST be different with these mixes then, Aaron. If you'd like to try to sort all of this out, I'd be happy to assist by shooting any of these versions out to you; just ask.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for checking that out, Jim. Correct me if I'm wrong, but track 1 on your promo CD has a different intro than the other two, right? Isn't that the one which starts off with just beats and then there's the "rap" at the beginning as well as at (2:53)?
Also, would the difference in where the rap starts between tracks 2 and 3 have to do with a delayed start on the third track? One second is pretty close, so perhaps there's just a little extra blank space in front of track 3 (or perhaps that track runs just a hair slower). I haven't done an A/B comparison, but the "no rap" version on my TMC disc sounds exactly like the LP version to my ears.
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abagon
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 11:57pm | IP Logged
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As the 45 run time info:
The actual 45 running time is (4:27), the listed time is "4:30" on the record label. (MCA 53662)
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
I almost hate to reignite the debate that started this thread over 1-1/2 years ago, but since its been determined that multiple versions of "On Our Own" were played on Top 40 radio, do you agree that Jim's aforementioned promo CD info should be noted in the database?
Also, has anyone picked up the Bobby Brown The Definitive Collection CD on Geffen B0006111? It looks like this collection is comprised almost exclusively of 45 versions of Brown's Top 40 hits. I've strongly considered purchasing this disc for this reason but given that this is a 2006 release, I'm concerned about this CD being mastered with the ultra loud, grossly overcompressed audio levels plaguing so many modern CD releases. Can anybody confirm or deny if the sonics on the Definitive Collection disc suffers from the same fate?
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RichM921
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| Posted: 26 June 2008 at 7:42pm | IP Logged
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Don't know if this info helps or not, but I bought this cassette single when it was out. One side was "with rap" and one side was "no rap." The only difference between the two is the intro. On the "with rap" version, it begines with the "Too hot to handle..." line. On the "no rap" version, the first line said by Bobby is "If you want somethin' done, you gotta do it yourself..." Then both versions proceed with the "I think this is gonna be another funky one" line and are identical from that point on.
I recall BOTH versions being played on various stations when this was out, so I don't know if we can call either one the definitive version.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 07 October 2008 at 3:31pm | IP Logged
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my commercial 45 as well as my commercial cassingle have the same catalog number (mca 53662) and contain the same version "on our own (with rap)" with a stated run time on the 45 of 4:30 but actually runs 4:29 on both versions......i found the correct 45 version on the cd
(S) (4:29) MCA 012157598 New Edition - All The Number Ones (45 version)
the cd is super compressed and distorted at normal levels......you need to lower the volume 3 or 4 db's for it to sound right....
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edtop40
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| Posted: 07 October 2008 at 9:56pm | IP Logged
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i also have an import 3" cd single which has the (7" version) listed as the first track running 4:15.....i don't know where this version came from, because it's NOT the version on the 7" vinyl 45.....go figure
 ngl
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 08 October 2008 at 12:31am | IP Logged
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Is it possible that track 1 from your import CD, Ed, is the 'rapless' edit that is on Jim's promo CD?
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 08 October 2008 at 8:26am | IP Logged
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I like how MCA changed the song title on the insert from your import 3" CD single, ed - although I see they managed to get it right on the disc itself, lol...
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edtop40
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| Posted: 08 October 2008 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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you know.....i think i have 2 different 3" cd singles.....and i used one for the cd itself and the other for the sleeve......because the cd itself says germany and the sleeve says france......i gotta check when i get home tonite......i didn't even realize the typo on the france sleeve...
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Bobby Brown - On Our Own
