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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged
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CD entries in the database for Dawn featuring Tony Orlando's "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree" range anywhere from 3:17 to 3:25, yet there are currently no associated comments that help explain the run time discrepencies. Does anyone have the vinyl 45 or the parent LP who can pass along the song's run time info? I'm curious to know if there is a length, edit, or speed difference between the 45 and LP.
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jimct
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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My commercial 45, which is mono, has a listed time of (3:19) and an actual time of (3:20).
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eric_a
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
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I just listened to my "Flashback" Arista reissue copy, which is mono and runs (3:17). This version runs considerably slower (about 1.5%) than the CD copy on AM Gold 1973. Aside from the fade, it also fades about 7 seconds sooner than my CD copy. Perhaps this info is useful to someone.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 05 March 2009 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone know of a CD source for this song in mono? The US CDs listed in the database are all stereo.
The stereo mix bugs me because the opening keyboard line (which is one the record's key hooks IMO) is much lower in the mix than the mono 45. For years into the CD era, this song just never sounded right in terms of the way I remembered it from the radio. I finally picked up an original commercial 45 a while back and now understand why the song didn't sound quite right on CD.
This may not be enough to qualify for a mix difference designation in the database, but if anyone knows of any import CDs that have the mono version, that would be helpful!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 05 March 2009 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
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An interesting note about this song: Whenever I've heard this song on CD, I've noticed tape bleed in the line:
A ... hundred yellow ribbons 'round the ole oak tree
In that hole, you can hear "hundred" right before he sings "hundred", which I've always thought was tape bleed, and the word bleeding onto the previous spot of the tape where the big silence is ... and that's why we can hear the bleed in only that one spot of the recording.
So I thought this tape bleed occured over 20+ years and that it's not there if you'd listen to the original 45/LP. But recently, I heard the song on "American Top 40" with the tape bleed, and then I thought, Maybe it was that way even on the original pressings. But now, as someone pointed out on the board, there's a woman who substitutes new CD versions for the originals on the remastered versions of the old shows on XM/Sirius. Which leaves me totally confused. Does anyone know if that bleed on "hundred" is there on the original 45/LP pressings?
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 March 2009 at 4:20am | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
Does anyone know of a CD source for this song in mono? The US CDs listed in the database are all stereo.
The stereo mix bugs me because the opening keyboard line (which is one the record's key hooks IMO) is much lower in the mix than the mono 45. For years into the CD era, this song just never sounded right in terms of the way I remembered it from the radio. I finally picked up an original commercial 45 a while back and now understand why the song didn't sound quite right on CD.
This may not be enough to qualify for a mix difference designation in the database, but if anyone knows of any import CDs that have the mono version, that would be helpful! |
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I've been looking for this in mono forever as well. So far, I've never found it.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 06 March 2009 at 7:07am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
An interesting note about this song: Whenever I've heard this song on CD, I've noticed tape bleed in the line:
A ... hundred yellow ribbons 'round the ole oak tree
In that hole, you can hear "hundred" right before he sings "hundred", which I've always thought was tape bleed, and the word bleeding onto the previous spot of the tape where the big silence is ... and that's why we can hear the bleed in only that one spot of the recording.
So I thought this tape bleed occured over 20+ years and that it's not there if you'd listen to the original 45/LP. But recently, I heard the song on "American Top 40" with the tape bleed, and then I thought, Maybe it was that way even on the original pressings. But now, as someone pointed out on the board, there's a woman who substitutes new CD versions for the originals on the remastered versions of the old shows on XM/Sirius. Which leaves me totally confused. Does anyone know if that bleed on "hundred" is there on the original 45/LP pressings? |
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I don't hear tape bleed-through on my 45.
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mstgator
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| Posted: 06 March 2009 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| But now, as someone pointed out on the board, there's a woman who substitutes new CD versions for the originals on the remastered versions of the old shows on XM/Sirius. |
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Just a quick correction: Shannon Lynn is in fact a man, not a woman. :)
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 08 March 2009 at 6:21am | IP Logged
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When Shannon replaces the tracks with versions from CDs, does he usually do it for every song in the countdown or just some? Also, are there certain years where they replace the song sources on the shows, or are all years up for grabs?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 11 March 2009 at 8:58pm | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
| The stereo mix bugs me because the opening keyboard line (which is one the record's key hooks IMO) is much lower in the mix than the mono 45. For years into the CD era, this song just never sounded right in terms of the way I remembered it from the radio. |
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Roscoe, that would depend on whether your local top-40 station played the mono or the stereo side of the Bell DJ 45 back in 1973. The stereo DJ 45 side also had the less-upfront keyboards.
EdisonLite wrote:
| In that hole, you can hear "hundred" right before he sings "hundred", which I've always thought was tape bleed, and the word bleeding onto the previous spot of the tape where the big silence is ... and that's why we can hear the bleed in only that one spot of the recording. |
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Gordon, the stereo side of the DJ 45 does have a wee bit of a bleed in the right channel at that spot, although it's on the word "a" (rather than "hundred") that slightly precedes the louder "a" at that point. It's much tighter than your typical tape bleed, though. It's almost as though they put the reverb on the "a" before it, rather than after. :) I don't hear any bleed on the word "hundred" at all, just "aA HUNDRED...", but only in the right channel.
Just for the record, the stereo side of the December, 1977 DJ reissue 45 on Arista 0301 - in spite of the 2520-S matrix number on the label and stamped in the deadwax - is the same common mono mix found on its mono-labeled flip side (matrix # 2520 on both label and wax.) This was a current-line Arista reissue, as opposed to the earlier Bell oldies line reissue 45 on Flashback 81.
Edited by Yah Shure on 11 March 2009 at 9:00pm
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 6:15am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure - my mistake. I meant the word "A". And that's a good description - it's like they put the reverb of the word on the spot BEFORE the word instead of after. So if it's there on the original 45, then it's not a case of bleedthrough occuring over time, between 1973 and the late '80s when the song was first transferred to CD. I guess I never noticed it on my 45 because of my simple phonograph player at the time, plus it was "competing" with the record noises on the 45.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 8:10am | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
| I don't hear tape bleed-through on my 45. |
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Out of curiosity, I listened to all of my 45s: both sides of the Bell mono/stereo DJ 45, the Bell mono commercial 45, the mono Flashback 81 reissue and both sides of the Arista 0301 reissue 45. Every one of them has the bleed-through.
To be sure, the bleed-through segment is very short, running only one-tenth of a second. The pause itself is twice as long, so the bleed-through occupies the second half of that .2-second pause.
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vanmeter
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
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That sounds more like it might be remnants of a guide vocal - perhaps? I've never heard the mono mix, but I think I have a copy I've never played assuming it was stereo. I'll have to find it now!
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
Roscoe wrote:
| I don't hear tape bleed-through on my 45. |
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Out of curiosity, I listened to all of my 45s: both sides of the Bell mono/stereo DJ 45, the Bell mono commercial 45, the mono Flashback 81 reissue and both sides of the Arista 0301 reissue 45. Every one of them has the bleed-through.
To be sure, the bleed-through segment is very short, running only one-tenth of a second. The pause itself is twice as long, so the bleed-through occupies the second half of that .2-second pause. |
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Well, this is a strange case. The reason I wasn't hearing that faint "a" (whether it's pre-echo or a guide vocal artifact) is that I was listening to a needledrop of my Bell 45 where I had summed L&R channels to mono.
When I listened to the 45 (which is allegedly mono) without the channels summed, I can hear that faint "a" just before the true vocal "a hundred yellow..." comes in.
This has to mean that the mono 45 is slightly out-of-phase. Weird.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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Can anyone who has these 45s -- and a CD with the song -- compare them and see if the CD versions have a lot more bleed-through or the same amount as the 45s?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
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Roscoe, I was able to hear the faint "a" either with or without summing the mono 45 to mono, but you may have something there regarding the phasing, because it was ever-so-slightly harder to hear when summed to mono.
Wanting to easily compare both un-summed and summed-to-mono samples side-by-side, I hit "record" and let it roll while playing the "a" word from all five of my mono 45s (or mono sides) and then edited out the dead spots between the changing of the records. The resulting .wav forms shown here illustrate the pause and the word "a". The five samples on the left are as recorded, and the second set after marker 01 are the same five, summed to mono. The 45s used, from left to right on the .wav file:
1. Bell 45318, mono commercial 45, Bestway pressing
2. Bell/Flashback 81, mono reissue 45, Bestway pressing
3. Bell 45318, mono side of DJ 45, Monarch pressing
4. Bell 45318, mono side of DJ 45, PRC pressing
5. Arista 0301, mono side of DJ 45, Columbia (Terre Haute) pressing, 1977
There isn't any appreciable visual difference to be seen between the un-summed and summed-to-mono samples. My intent was simply to listen for any significant differences. But what's most visually interesting with the .wav forms is the fifth (and tenth) one, the Arista 0301 1977 reissue. Its .wav form is centered here, whereas the first four are not.
Gordon, I don't have the track on CD, but I downloaded a dub to compare. It seems to have the same amount of bleed-through (or whatever that is) except that it is in the left channel, rather than the right channel on the DJ 45 stereo side. I sent John a mono 45 dub, so perhaps he can chime in with his findings.
Edited by Yah Shure on 12 March 2009 at 9:24pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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The 'a' I hear right before 'a hundred...' almost sounds like some sort of vocal delay of some kind.
The mono is definitely superior to the stereo imho. It's definitely what made the song a HUGE hit in 1973.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 21 April 2013 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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in order to re-create the proper 45 version you'll need to
fade for 0:13 from 3:07 to 3:20
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edtop40
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KentT
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| Posted: 13 May 2013 at 8:31pm | IP Logged
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My EMI pressed Bell UK 45 has the bleed. I think it is EMT plate reverb in nature. My UK Bell EMI 45 is also Mono.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 28 August 2016 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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Just FYI, apparently stock copies were made in both mono
and stereo. I have 2 copies of the original grey-label
Bell 45318 in the red sleeves.
The mono copy deadwax # is 1592 - 2
The stereo copy deadwax# is 1592S - 1
On both copies the B-side is in mono.
MM
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Tie a Yellow Ribbon..." - Dawn
