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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 03 June 2009 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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The actual commercial 45 run time of Heatwave's "Always and Forever" is 3:31. (Thanks to Jim for providing the timing info. The printed record label time is 3:32.) Currently, database CDs of this song containing a "45 version" comment range from 3:29-3:39.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 March 2012 at 11:18am | IP Logged
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The reason that times range on CD is because there are two different edits! So, we either have two different 45 versions, or we have one version on CD that is not correct.
The first edit appears on "Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 19" and the other edit is on "Can You Dig It (Box Set)."
They are the same up until the 1:28 mark.
Edit #1 lyrics at 1:25ish
I'll always love you
There'll always be sunshine
Edit #2 lyrics at same place
I'll always love you
Forever
There is a definite edit at 1:28 on the first version, whereas the second version has the edit at 1:38. This is what accounts for the timing difference. The rest of the song is the same from that point forward.
Which one is correct?
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Aaron Kannowski
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91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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jimct
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| Posted: 12 March 2012 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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Aaron, I just pulled out my 1978 stock 45, listened at the 1:25-ish mark, and
he sings "I'll always love you", and then nothing. After a brief interlude of
music, the next verse of vocal resumes with "there'll always be sunshine". I
just popped in my "Didn't It Blow Your MInd, Vol. 19" CD (the older of the
two CDs, produced by Bill Inglot), and it sounds just like my 45 at that point.
I heard Rhino canned Inglot some years ago for "paying too much attention
to detail". Apparently, this "we don't care" philosophy bit 'em in the butt on
the post-Inglot-era "Can You Dig It" box!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 March 2012 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Jim, for confirming that the Can You Dig It box set has a bogus edit. I think there are a couple other database CDs that run 3:38, so those may be incorrect, too.
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Aaron Kannowski
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91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 12 March 2012 at 11:31pm | IP Logged
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I understand Inglot got canned along with hundreds of
others when Warner did their blood-letting, not because of
his obsessiveness with detail. Besides, Bill has gotten a
LOT of things wrong on the many CDs he had done for Rhino.
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jimct
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Grant, if you must know, my old college roommate in CT later went on to
spend many years in Cali working for Rhino; we kept in touch.
Furthermore, another long-time friend of mine had regularly
corresponded with Inglot during his Rhino years, and he'd kindly shared
the gist of what they'd discussed with me, as a fellow interested
audiophile. How many folks in Inglot's position at the time would've both
read, and then personally taken the time to reply to an individual
consumer, addressing both his compliments/complaints of his work, on
more than one occasion? Very few, I'd say. Grant, are your sources both
multiple, and as close to the Rhino/Inglot situation at the time as mine?
Hmmm.... Yes, there were massive firings when WB first bought out Rhino.
It happened, and was/is fairly common industry knowledge. To me, your
reply sounds like you were sitting in on Mr. Inglot's annual Rhino
performance reviews (which I have my doubts about) to speak with such
confidence about his dismissal. Grant, it is clear that you are not a fan of
Bill Inglot's work, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. The late
80's/early 90's were chock full of audio issues for him, during
construction of the Have A Nice Day/Soul Hits Of The 70's V/A CD series. I
won't bore you, but you'd be amazed to discover that when Inglot asked
many of the licensees for the "best available quality 45 version master" for
an old hit song, it was like he was speaking Portugese! He often initially
got LP versions, alternate versions, wrong edits, or hissy, late-generation
dubs instead. Follow-up calls to these "middlemen" were the norm. And
all while having to work within Rhino's "we've scheduled the CD's release
date for xx/xx, so let's please hurry it up on Vol. xx, Bill!" Can you say
"rock and a hard place?" Yes, some errors do appear on his work, but I
always admired his overall efforts, then and now. I truly believe no human
being could've done a better job with them than him on those series,
given the numerous roadblocks/time constraints he was under. The
"Always And Forever" example (this thread) is just another example of his
good work. His successors at Rhino weren't even smart enough to re-
cycle his correct 45 version for their "Can You Dig It?" box; instead, they
replaced his correct version with their own incorrect version. You can keep
these new guys, Grant, OK! Inglot wasn't perfect, but I'd welcome him
back in my "oldies audio trenches" anytime!
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jimct
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 13 March 2012 at 7:38am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Grant, if you must know, my old college
roommate in CT later went on to
spend many years in Cali working for Rhino; we kept in
touch.
Furthermore, another long-time friend of mine had
regularly
corresponded with Inglot during his Rhino years, and he'd
kindly shared
the gist of what they'd discussed with me, as a fellow
interested
audiophile. How many folks in Inglot's position at the
time would've both
read, and then personally taken the time to reply to an
individual
consumer, addressing both his compliments/complaints of
his work, on
more than one occasion? Very few, I'd say. Grant, are
your sources both
multiple, and as close to the Rhino/Inglot situation at
the time as mine?
Hmmm.... Yes, there were massive firings when WB first
bought out Rhino.
It happened, and was/is fairly common industry knowledge.
To me, your
reply sounds like you were sitting in on Mr. Inglot's
annual Rhino
performance reviews (which I have my doubts about) to
speak with such
confidence about his dismissal. Grant, it is clear that
you are not a fan of
Bill Inglot's work, and you are certainly entitled to
your opinion. The late
80's/early 90's were chock full of audio issues for him,
during
construction of the Have A Nice Day/Soul Hits Of The 70's
V/A CD series. I
won't bore you, but you'd be amazed to discover that when
Inglot asked
many of the licensees for the "best available quality 45
version master" for
an old hit song, it was like he was speaking Portugese!
He often initially
got LP versions, alternate versions, wrong edits, or
hissy, late-generation
dubs instead. Follow-up calls to these "middlemen" were
the norm. And
all while having to work within Rhino's "we've scheduled
the CD's release
date for xx/xx, so let's please hurry it up on Vol. xx,
Bill!" Can you say
"rock and a hard place?" Yes, some errors do appear on
his work, but I
always admired his overall efforts, then and now. I truly
believe no human
being could've done a better job with them than him on
those series,
given the numerous roadblocks/time constraints he was
under. The
"Always And Forever" example (this thread) is just
another example of his
good work. His successors at Rhino weren't even smart
enough to re-
cycle his correct 45 version for their "Can You Dig It?"
box; instead, they
replaced his correct version with their own incorrect
version. You can keep
these new guys, Grant, OK! Inglot wasn't perfect, but I'd
welcome him
back in my "oldies audio trenches" anytime! |
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Well, first of all, you can tone down your patronizing
tone.
Second, you assume wrong. I have always been a fan of
Inglot's work. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have bought
almost anything with his name on it. His name meant
quality. And, I am well aware of his, what was once
described as "pestering" the vault people for the correct
tapes. This is why he has gotten things wrong on CDs, because he had deadlines and other pressures to get the
job done. In other words, he cared, when when it was not
the corporate way to care.
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prisdeej
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| Posted: 13 March 2012 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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The version used on TM Century's GoldDisc3 is incorrect as well, but
this doesn't surprise me.
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Dave L.
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jono
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| Posted: 13 March 2012 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Jim, for sharing this info you found. I'm glad I kept my "Didn't It Blow Your Mind" series even after I'd bought the "Can You Dig It?" box.
I couldn't have said it better than you regarding Bill Inglot. Just seeing his name on the credits of a cd almost always made it worth purchasing.
Jon O.
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 18 March 2022 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
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Hey all. What are the edit points to re-create the 45 edit
using the long LP version?
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Listen to The Lunar Laugh!
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Always and Forever" - Heatwave
