Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: "Knock Three Times"

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Topic: "Knock Three Times" - Dawn

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 02 March 2009 at 12:30pm \| IP Logged

The actual commercial 45 run time of Dawn's "Knock Three Times" is 2:55. (Timing info provided by Jim. The printed record label time is 2:56.) I only report this because database CD times run from 2:52 to 2:57.

Hykker
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Posted: 02 March 2009 at 4:27pm \| IP Logged

Were some stock copies of this single in stereo? I ask because back during the song's chart run I recall seeing an ad in Billboard that showed what looked like a commercial copy (ie-no markings designating it as a promo), but had a "stereo" notation on it. I do remember hearing a slightly different mix of the song on WRKO in Boston...the most noticeable difference being the stomping on the floor sounding different.
I know some Bell promo singles were mono/stereo by late 1970, though I don't recall if this was.

TomDiehl1
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Posted: 02 March 2009 at 9:29pm \| IP Logged

The promo for Knock Three Times was mono/stereo. The U.S. stock copy that I used to have was (E)...I would've kept it if it had played in true mono. the Philippines pressing that I still have, plays in true stereo.

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Roscoe
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Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:32pm \| IP Logged

My commercial 45 sounds like pure mono, not E.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 03 March 2009 at 11:34pm \| IP Logged

Based on the mix differences Hykker sites, I wonder if the mono CD appearances of "Knock Three Times" are considered a 45 mix, while stereo CDs are an LP mix?

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 28 May 2009 at 7:38pm \| IP Logged

Checking in again... Did anyone ever verify if the 45 and LP are different mixes?

Bill Cahill
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Posted: 21 June 2009 at 4:56pm \| IP Logged

Yes they are different mixes. On the stereo LP from 1:18 to 1:23 there are horns in one channel. On the single, those horns are completely mixed out. The single also runs at a faster pitch than the original LP version, but most CDs seem to be pitched up to be closer to the single's pitch.

The database shows some mono sources which might be the 45 mix, I don't have any of those to check. The mono 45 mix has been issued in Canada on the Club Z Collection, CD Club 701 "Solid Gold 70'Z".

I don't know if it's different enough to be a 45 "version" or a "45 mix". Then there's the discussion as to whether or not all stereo issues should read, "LP mix sped up to match 45 pitch".

I'll let the judges decide all of that.

Indy500
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:11pm \| IP Logged

I can still hear the horns at 1:18 to 1:23 on:

(M) (2:56) K-Tel 3130 60's Sound Explosion

Not as loud as other passages but it's there.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:13pm \| IP Logged

Bill Cahill wrote:

On the stereo LP from 1:18 to 1:23 there are horns in one channel. On the single, those horns are completely mixed out.

Bill, your stereo LP mix description also matches the stereo side of the DJ 45. Those left-channel horns on the stereo side are mixed out on the mono side for a full ten seconds between 1:18 and 1:28.

I also have several reissue 45s on Flashback. The mono Bell-distributed pressing is from the identical stamper as my DJ 45's mono side. The Arista-distributed pressing is true stereo (although the "Candida" side is mono.) My mono "Knock Three Times" runs an actual 2:56, the same as the printed time.

Edited by Yah Shure on 22 June 2009 at 5:16pm

Bill Cahill
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:53pm \| IP Logged

Indy, there are actually some horns on both the left and right channels. The ones Yah Sure and I hear mixed out are the louder ones. I think the lower ones on the other channel are still on the mono 45. So I'm not sure which horns you might be hearing in that section.

Yah Shure
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:59pm \| IP Logged

I listened very carefully to the mono 45 during that stretch, and there are no horns whatsoever. Could it be that the K-Tel track is a fold-down?

Indy500
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 10:35pm \| IP Logged

I hear what you're talking about now. The muted trumpet(?) that doubles the lead vocals remains on the mono version but the answering trombone(?) is not audible on the K-tel cd.

The answering trombone is missing from a similar passage from 2:12 to 2:22 as well.

Edited by Indy500 on 22 June 2009 at 10:46pm

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 29 June 2009 at 1:24pm \| IP Logged

Bill Cahill wrote:

I appreciate your analysis on this, Bill! Since the horns you speak of are completely mixed out of the 45 from 1:18-1:23, it looks to me like a 45/LP version distinction needs to be made for CD appearances of "Knock Three Times" in the database. I'd be interested to know if any of the song's mono CD entries consist of the correct 45 mix, or if they're simply fold-downs of the stereo LP version.

Indy500
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Posted: 29 June 2009 at 2:26pm \| IP Logged

The mono K-Tel CD I have is a different mix than a fold-down of the stereo version I tried.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 29 June 2009 at 2:39pm \| IP Logged

Hmmm, that's odd, Indy500... I guess the mix on the K-Tel CD would fall under the "neither the 45 nor LP version" category.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 December 2018 at 10:14pm \| IP Logged

Stereo LP version

I can trace most of the CD masterings to three distinct analog transfers.

The first is on Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1971 (1989). The sound is good overall, but there's a disturbing lack of hiss and lack of presence in the early portion of the fade - noise reduction, perhaps? The same analog transfer is used on:

Priority's Seventies Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 9 #1 Hits (1991) - too loud and clips; avoid
Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 10 1971 (1991) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 6 1971 RE-1 (1991) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 16 1969-1972 (2001) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
Time-Life's 2-CD Seventies Music Explosion Vol. 3 Miracles (2005) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid

The second is on Rhino's Best Of (1994). This is an improvement over Billboard. Here, it keeps the same EQ tone to the end of the fade, so there's no evidence of noise reduction. The same analog transfer is used on:

Varese Sarabande's Bubblegum Classics Vol. 1 (1995)
Razor & Tie's 2-CD Suddenly '70s (1997)
Razor & Tie's 2-CD Viva Las Vegas (1997)
Razor & Tie's 6-CD 70 Number One Hits Of The 70s Vol. 1 (1998)
Varese Sarabande's 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits (2000)
Razor & Tie's 1-CD Suddenly '70s (2001)
Madacy's Vintage Pop (2005) - too loud and clips a lot; avoid
Reader's Digest's 4-CD Time In A Bottle (2006)

Finally, two outliers use a third analog transfer, different from the above two. They don't sound nearly as good as Best Of:

BR Music Holland's 3-CD Definite 70's Vol. 3 (1997)
EMI Australia's 5-CD Seventies Complete Vol. 2 (1999)

My recommendation for the stereo LP version: Rhino's Best Of (1994)

Mono 45 version

Your odds of finding the mono 45 version on CD are slim. I have it on exactly one CD: Heartland/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Feel Good Rock (1989). Sound quality is so-so. It's mono, but the balance is a little off. The left and right channels may be a tiny bit out of synch - hard to tell. EQ is a little thin.

I noticed that in Aaron's library, he used only the left channel of Feel Good Rock, copied it to the right channel, boosted the levels by about 4 dB and adjusted the EQ. It's an improvement.

Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 December 2018 at 10:17pm

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PopArchivist
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Posted: 20 December 2018 at 11:15pm \| IP Logged

This is one of the cases where the mono is completely forgotten about even though that is what was released in 1971 when it came out. The mono releases of the 1970 and 1971 Billboard hits are clearly overshadowed by their stereo counterparts, which is all anyone knows these days.

You are right about the hiss in the stereo versions as you noted above. I often found it very distracting on what was one of my favorite early 70's tracks.

KentT
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Posted: 24 December 2018 at 5:53pm \| IP Logged

I have the UK Bell/EMI 45. It too is mono.

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AdvprosD
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Posted: 04 March 2022 at 4:48pm \| IP Logged

I think I might have heard the 45 version for the first time in quite a long while. I double checked the source against the database, and it actually was the 45 version in mono.

I was outside the board talking to Aaron about a collection of Sony CDs called Super Hits of the 70's and some odd stuff I heard. The discussion was actually about this being
one of the earliest collections I can recall that was sold as a 5 disc 100-song collection. Later, I dug up another set that was only 60 songs on 4 discs. The database lists it
as "Sony Music Commercial Music Group 778234 Hits Of The 70's (Box Set) (45 version)." Since it was the 45 version, I decided to rip it to the PC.

I'm deviating away from Tony Orlando here to note that there may be a whole lot of 45 versions on this set, (The 60 song set.) The 100 song set seems to be mostly album versions.

I'm kind-of glad I picked this set up because there is a lot of material here that I need to dig into a bit to see just how many 45 versions are on this.

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