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Grant
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| Posted: 02 August 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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OK, your post made me dig out the liner notes, because the drums sound very real. It's hard to tell exactly who played on this song because the album has several drummers on it. My guess? John Robinson. Teena also plays drums on a few tracks. There is drum programming on the album, but it is limited to bit pieces of bongo drums played with sticks during the verses. I'm a drummer, and I can tell!
Edited by Grant on 02 August 2006 at 10:20am
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aaronk
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Not that all this info is relevant, but I will agree that the drums on the LP mix sound live. The drums on the alternate mix sound electronic. Even on the LP mix, the beat keeps perfect timing. I overlapped the first half of the song with the second half, and the beat never goes out of sync. Either they're using a drum machine or the drummer has a beatkeeper and is very accurate.
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Grant
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| Posted: 02 August 2006 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| The drums on the alternate mix sound electronic. |
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Not to me! They are just very dry, with no reverb added.
Quote:
| Even on the LP mix, the beat keeps perfect timing. I overlapped the first half of the song with the second half, and the beat never goes out of sync. Either they're using a drum machine or the drummer has a beatkeeper and is very accurate. |
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John Robinson is known for having a perfect sense of timing. Let's not forget that the tape machine(s) used for creating the single mix may have not been 100% stable. It happens. Don't forget the that single mix is heavily edited.
Edited by Grant on 02 August 2006 at 2:36pm
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crapfromthepast
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This thread's been dormant awhile, but I just did some work on "Lovergirl" and thought I'd share.
First, the drums are played by a live drummer and recorded with a click track, which was not unheard of in in 1984. (It was a bit more common in the late '70s/early '80s before drum machines took over dance music. Check out the Duran Duran records, the mid '80s Genesis records, "Every Breath You Take", and the last Go-Go's album. Plenty of live drummer/click tracks to go around.) Teena Marie's first record with a drum machine was "Work It", the follow-up to "Ooh La La La" in 1988, according to the liner notes of Hip-O's Ultimate Collection.
Second, the 45 can be recreated from Club Epic (1990), which is not a remix as listed in the 1955-1996 version of Pat's book. (Not sure if that's covered elsewhere in the forum or in the database.) The edit points in the 45 fall at 0:18, 3:26 and 3:29. The mastering on Club Epic is superior to Ultimate Collection (to my ears anyway) and is not squashed/compressed/maximized as found on later releases.
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aaronk
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Thanks for adding the info about the drum track. That's interesting information. I was aware that some drummers used click tracks, which would explain why this song never misses a beat. The drumming is dead on from start to finish. I still think they sound like a drum kit (electronic).
You are correct that the 45 can be re-created from making an edit of the version found on Club Epic, because that is the source I used to make mine. At some point, it appears that Pat has amended the database to read 12" single version, which is more accurate than the previous remix comment.
Edited by aaronk on 02 January 2007 at 11:25pm
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The Hits Man
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Earlier in this thread, I believe, it was noted that there were two versions of this 45 released. One was indeed mixed differently, with the drums up loud and the whole track dry, without reverb.
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Steve Sharp
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I was just going over the music video this week, and the first 15 seconds of the audio from the video sounds like an intro from the other versions of the song were trimmed off, compared to the video version.
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aaronk
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Yeah, you're right! There is a unique intro that sounds like it was tacked onto the beginning of the LP version.
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mainrhythm
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Don't know if it'll help, but my (styrene) 45 says:
P G ZSS169787-3C
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Bellenger1981
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I just came across this alternate 45 mix version on the
"Stranger Things 3" soundtrack from 2019!
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EternalStatic
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Great! The "dry" (original) 45 mix is also available as a bonus track on
the remastered version of the parent album Starchild. I think it may
be out of print by now, but the digital version is available from the digital
retailers in the US. I have been meaning to buy the remasters of her
Epic catalog for a while.
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aaronk
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Well, to my surprise, after receiving the Stranger Things 3 soundtrack, I've discovered that this mix is neither. It's close to the original single mix, but it's not identical. The digital version of "Starchild" (Expanded) has this same "neither" version that appears on the soundtrack. Close, but not quite.
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Aaron Kannowski
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EternalStatic
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A couple of additional points about this one... To prevent utter confusion, let's refer to the three obviously different single-length mixes as (A) common hit version with a more "live" sounding drum track, (B) the
less common but original 45 with the dryer mix, and (C) the odd "Single Version" that has popped up in recent years that is sort of similar to mix (B) but has some obvious differences.
• The outlier "third mix" (C), which has popped up as the "Single Version" in recent years (on both the Starchild expanded edition and the Stranger Things 3 soundtrack), seems to be an edit of the
Video Mix. Note that there is a version called '12" Instrumental' on the Starchild expanded edition
that is clearly a part of these same mix sessions. The intro from the "Instrumental" could almost be tacked onto the non-"Single Version" (C) to re-create the full Video mix if not for Teena's spoken word over
the intro of "Instrumental" ("I see you brought your helicopter to pick me up...") Still, this lends credence to the idea that the odd mix (though possibly not the edit) existed in 1984 and would have sounded familiar
to the MTV crowd, although it is sadly not the true 45 mix. (My theory is that there is an unreleased vocal 12" mix from these sessions that was shelved in favor of the "hit" 12" mix, and that is likely where the Video
Mix and non-hit "Single Version" (C) are derived from.)
• Additionally, a new extended version created by John Morales (of '80s-era remixers M+M) has been released in recent years that seems to be built around the
original non-hit 45 mix (mix B). So, the tapes maybe/hopefully still exist somewhere. It drives me a bit mad when I go back to researching this one every once in a while, LOL.
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aaronk
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I disagree on the comparison between the "neither" version and the music video. If you listen to the snare hits, the "neither" version and the less common 45 version have electronic handclaps on top of the snare. The video and LP version do not. At first, I thought the video was a unique mix from start to finish, but upon listening closer, the video (Vevo / YouTube) is simply the right channel of the LP version and is in mono. The intro, however, is unique to the video.
Edited by aaronk on 17 October 2021 at 8:59am
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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A summary of the various mixes:
- 12" single version (5:46); same mix as LP version but longer
- LP version (4:49); 12" version can be edited down to create LP version
- 45 version of 12" mix (4:20); same mix as 12" and LP but edited further
- 45 version / alternate mix (4:24)
- "neither" version (4:20) labeled as "Single Version" on Starchild reissue and Stranger Things 3; similar drum track to the alternate mix 45 version but instrumentation is at different levels throughout; before the fadeout, the rhythm guitar notes that follow the line "for my love will make you high" are missing on this version
- video mix (on Vevo video from YouTube); mono; intro similar to 12" instrumental; remainder of this version is the right channel only of the LP mix
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Aaron Kannowski
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EternalStatic
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Thanks for this summation, Aaron ..... I hear the handclaps now. When I first listened, I thought the collapsed sound of the video was just down to being very different mastering/wonky sourcing.
Any way you slice it, sorting out the various versions out there is a mess.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Teena Marie - Lovergirl
