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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 5:41pm | IP Logged
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I tried to recreate the 45 version from the LP version, and you can get pretty darn close. It's not really much of a change from the LP version, and I'm not really sure why Manhattan Records bothered at all.
The LP version has a drum-only intro for the first 5 seconds, which is removed for the 45. The 45 comes in on the snare hit right before the guitar starts (at about 5.5 seconds on my version from Body Talk - Hearts In Motion). The edit on the 45 to remove the drum intro is actually a bad edit, and the true 45 lops off about 0.05 seconds of that initial snare hit. Listen carefully to the 45 - that first snare hit has no attack due to the bad edit.
The next 4 minutes and 2 seconds of the song are identical to the LP version, which puts us into the fade-out.
At 4:07.8 on the LP, or 4:02.5 on the 45, beginning with a snare hit, the two versions become different, with the 45 and LP having two different sax portions behind the vocals. The 45 and LP portions are both playing the same notes, but the 45 version is one full octave below the LP version! The vocals are the same, and all the backing instrumentation is the same, but there is a different take for the sax portion. Maybe someone thought there was a bum note in the fade-out of the LP version?
The 45 also has a much quicker fade, beginning at about 3:59 and ending at about 4:11 (45 time) - it's about a 16-beat fade. The LP fade begins at 4:04 (same place in the song as the 45) and ends at about 4:31 - it's about a 32-beat fade.
Bottom line - I don't think you can recreate the true 45 from the LP version.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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The above is true...
However you CAN create both the LP edit AND the 45 edit from the full-length version EMI-Manhattan SPRO-04003 (12-inch promo [labeled time 4:54]).
Maybe this version is on some CD promo or import CD??
Andy
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
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Andy, once again, very interesting info! So the LP version is actually an edit of the 12" version, and the 45 is a different edit from that 12" promo. It makes sense that the sax solo at the end of the 45 version was in the original full-length mix.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
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That is correct...
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 16 July 2007 at 12:00am | IP Logged
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Have seen the 45 versions of "Endless Summer Nights" and "Angelia" on the Richard Marx import CD "Ballads". Available through Amazon and a couple other places.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 28 October 2007 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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I tried recreating "Angelia" from the LP version, and again, you can't quite do it but you can come pretty darn close.
I used the LP version from the promo sampler Marx (Capitol DPRO-79942, 1991).
Keep 0:00.0-2:57.1 of LP version.
Edit on downbeat? I think this is one of the splices that can't be duplicated - the 45 completely cuts out the guitar solo, but you can't quite do that starting from the LP version.
Cut out 32 beats from 2:57.1-3:16.9.
Keep 3:16.9-3:48.5 of LP version.
Cut out 16 beats from 3:48.5-3:58.4.
Keep 3:58.4-4:03.3 of LP version.
Cut out 16 beats from 4:03.3-4:13.2.
Keep 4:13.2-4:18.7 of LP version.
Cut out 32 beats from 4:18.7-4:38.6.
Keep 4:38.6-4:47.2 of LP version.
Cut out 16 beats from 4:47.2-4:57.1.
Keep 4:57.1-5:19.8 (end) of LP version.
This last splice doesn't work because there's a wailing sax over the vocals on the LP version in this last segment, which isn't on the 45.
I had a similar instrumentation problem trying to recreate the short intro to "Satisfied" from the LP.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 02 December 2009 at 12:36am | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
Bottom line - I don't think you can recreate the true 45 from the LP version. |
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I think this may be because the 45 is a remix. I own the old German maxi CD single of "Right Here Waiting," and track four is "Endless Summer Nights (Remix)." It does have the edited opening you describe; however, it runs a bit longer than your listed time for the 45, about 4:21.
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abagon
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| Posted: 02 December 2009 at 7:15am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| Have seen the 45 versions of "Endless Summer Nights" and "Angelia" on the Richard Marx import CD "Ballads". Available through Amazon and a couple other places. |
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Both "Endless Summer Nights" and "Angelia" on the CD "Ballads" (Japan pressing TOSHIBA EMI TOCP-8336 released in 1994) are surely the US commercial 45 version. But "Endless Summer Nights" is slightly slower than the US 45. (The actual CD time "4:12", Actual 45 runs "4:11"). "Angelia" is the same speed.
--abagon
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 25 April 2024 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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There is another difference between the LP and 45 version
at the fadeout besides the different sax take. The vocals
right after the sax "time was all we had until the day we
said goodbye" are two different vocal takes. "Goodbye" is
sung at a lower key on the 45 version.
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 11 July 2024 at 11:56am | IP Logged
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Can I ask if anyone knows for sure if
their local stations were playing the LP
or 45 of this?
I only ever recall hearing the LP but I
could very well be misremembering (I was
in Massachusetts when the song was a
current).
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Hykker
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| Posted: 11 July 2024 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
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LunarLaugh wrote:
Can I ask if anyone knows for sure if
their local stations were playing the LP
or 45 of this? |
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I'm 99% sure the station in N.H. I was at then played the 45. All our music was on cart, but we rarely played LP versions in the
mid-late 80s.
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 11 July 2024 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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So there are three variables on the horn line following the vocal around the 4:05 mark?
There's the lower octave on the 45, the higher octave with the harder and more intense breath that causes a slight bum note which I have on the LP.
Where does this one originate from? It has a higher octave on the horn line but the line is played more smoothly...
Endless Summer Nights
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995wlol
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| Posted: 12 July 2024 at 8:44am | IP Logged
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LunarLaugh wrote:
Can I ask if anyone knows for sure if
their local stations were playing the LP
or 45 of this?
I only ever recall hearing the LP but I
could very well be misremembering (I was
in Massachusetts when the song was a
current). |
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In Minneapolis, KDWB played the LP version and WLOL played
the 45 version.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 July 2024 at 10:02am | IP Logged
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LunarLaugh wrote:
| So there are three variables on the horn line following the vocal around the 4:05 mark? |
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There is only one mix of this song, which is on the promo 12" single. This version runs 4:53. For the LP, the engineer made an edit at 4:07 of the 4:53 version.
For the single, the engineer started with the full 4:53 version, removed the drum intro, and then faded early. Therefore, there is no edit at the 4:07 point (of the full version) and we hear a different sax line than what is heard on the LP version at this point.
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 13 July 2024 at 1:26pm | IP Logged
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But where does the third variation of the ending horn line in the link posted above originate from? Still the 12" mix?
Edited by LunarLaugh on 13 July 2024 at 1:26pm
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 13 July 2024 at 2:11pm | IP Logged
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995wlol wrote:
LunarLaugh wrote:
Can I ask if anyone knows for sure if
their local stations were playing the LP
or 45 of this?
I only ever recall hearing the LP but I
could very well be misremembering (I was
in Massachusetts when the song was a
current). |
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In Minneapolis, KDWB played the LP version and WLOL played
the 45 version. |
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Thanks! Sure enough, there's a KDWB aircheck on YouTube which clearly plays the LP version intro, too. I remember
hearing this particular intro a lot more than the edited one, for some reason, and I never owned the album.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 14 July 2024 at 4:27am | IP Logged
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Hi LunarLaugh,
Nobody seemed to answer your questions, so I wanted to say
that version you pointed out is NOT the hit take.
It is a re-recording, possibly introduced in 2021 on
'Stories To Tell - Greatest Hits And More'.
That's why the sax is different...
Andy
Edited by AndrewChouffi on 14 July 2024 at 4:27am
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LunarLaugh
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| Posted: 15 July 2024 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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Hmmm, I thought the vocal and overall mix sounded a little different. A pretty convincing re-recording. Better than the usual, anyway.
Thanks!
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Richard Marx - "Endless Summer Nights"
