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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 03 August 2015 at 3:06pm | IP Logged
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I just noticed that the initial pressing of Mariah Carey's 1990 debut album in the US has a different mix of "Love Takes Time" on it.
While the mix sounds close to the commonly found album/single version, the most noticeable difference occurs around 2:59 where that climactic whistle-register note during the final chorus is missing. The first note of "whistle-libbing" is buried lower in the mix and then when the chorus kicks in it's 100% muted.
Oddly, "Love Takes Time" isn't even listed on the back cover or in the booklet of this copy, but it is on the hype sticker affixed to the front of the packaging and is listed on the disc. (matrix: 2A CK45202 02 A) This probably indicates that it was a last minute addition to the album, becoming its second single. It's fairly easy to spot this US pressing as her name is printed in gold ink on the front, instead of plain white and instead of the white text on black spines the commonly found pressings have, the spines on this have black text on shiny gold ink.
I used to have the single for "Love Takes Time" and am 99% certain the whistle was there. This mix without it immediately sounded "wrong" to me. But if anyone with the single is willing to investigate, it never hurts to double check these things. =)
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 03 August 2015 at 7:21pm | IP Logged
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Further confusion via wikipedia (though it confirms a bit of the above speculation) :
Quote:
Mariah Carey's debut album for the label was completed and being mastered when she wrote the song with Ben Margulies. Margulies said, "It was sort of a gospelish thing I was improvising, then we began working on it. It was on a work tape that we had...and we recorded a very quick demo. It was just a piano vocal demo - I played live piano, and she sang it."
Carey was on a mini-tour of ten states, playing acoustically with a piano player and three back-up singers. While on a company plane, she played the demo of "Love Takes Time" for Columbia Records president Don Ienner. "All the important guys were on the plane," Margulies said. "Tommy Mottola, Ienner, and Bobby Colomby." Carey was told the song was a "career-maker," and that it had to go on the first album. She protested - her album was already being mastered, and she intended this ballad for her next release.
The demo was sent to producer Walter Afanasieff. When Carey flew west to work with Narada Michael Walden on some tracks for her first album, Tommy Mottola and Don Ienner were impressed with Afanasieff's work and gave him an executive staff producer job with the label.
"I guess to see if he made the right choice, (Tommy) called me up one day," remembers Afanasieff. "He said, 'We've got this Mariah Carey album done, but there's a song that she and Ben Margulies wrote that is phenomenal, and I want to try everything we can to put it on the album.' I said, 'What do you want me to do?' and he said, 'You only have a couple of days, but are you ready to cut it?' I couldn't believe the opportunity that it was. I'd never produced anything by myself up until that time."
The demo was very close to what Mottola wanted the finished product to be, according to Afanasieff. "We cut the song and the music and the basics in about a day - and the only reason is this deadline. It was do it or we were gonna miss out on the whole thing. We got the tape and recorded everything and we got on the plane and went to New York (and) did her vocals. She did all the backgrounds, practically sang all night...We came back to the studio that afternoon, and we had to fix one line very quickly, and then (engineer) Dana (Jon Chapelle) and I got back on the plane with the tape, went back to the studio in Sausalito, and mixed it. So it was a three-day process: a day and a half for music, kind of like a day for vocals, and a day for mixing."
Afanasieff heard from Columbia executives as soon as they received the mix. They wanted Carey's vocal a little louder, so a remix was quickly completed. The producer asked if the song would still make the debut album, and was told, "We're going to do our best."
When the album was released, "Love Takes Time" was not listed on the cassette or compact disc. "(On) some of the original first copies of the record, they didn't have time to print the name of the song," Margulies laughs. "And so the song's on there, but it doesn't say that it's on there. It was a song that actually was strong enough to stop the pressing...I don't know if they had to throw away a few hundred copies."[1]
For the release to radio, a second mix was created that muffled Carey's whistle note in the background of the song, during the song's bridge. This version of the song appeared in all of the official single releases of "Love Takes Time" in the US and abroad. |
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Is the bolded part accurate?
Edited by Underground Dub on 03 August 2015 at 7:22pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 03 August 2015 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
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Just pulled out my copy of the promo CD (CSK 73455). There is no version notated on the disc, and it has a printed and actual time of 3:48. At the 2:58 mark, the "whistle" note is at a very low volume, and then it's gone by the time the chorus starts. I just watched the official VEVO video on YouTube, and the whistle-singing is there loud and clear.
Nice catch! This is definitely a different mix that nobody had previously spotted. If I'm understanding it correctly, some pressings of the album contain the first mix, which was also on the promo CD. Then, later pressings of the CD have the new mix where the high-pitched singing is brought up in the mix.
Which version appeared on the cassette single and (if there was one) vinyl 45?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 03 August 2015 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Underground Dub wrote:
| Is the bolded part accurate? |
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Based on what you said about the initial pressing of the album, I'd say it's only partially accurate. The part about radio received the "muffled whistling" mix is true; however, it's not clear as to whether this is a "second mix." If I had to draw a conclusion right now, I'd say the first mix is the "muffled whistling" version that was put on the initial pressing and promo CD. The second mix would be the one on later pressings with the whistling more prevalent.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 04 August 2015 at 12:42am | IP Logged
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Thanks, aaronk. That's what I was leaning towards as well.
Hopefully someone can chime in with details of what's on the commercial cassette and 7" singles!
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 04 August 2015 at 5:10am | IP Logged
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Whoops, info already posted.
Edited by Brian W. on 04 August 2015 at 5:15am
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edtop40
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| Posted: 04 August 2015 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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my commercial cassingle issued as columbia 73455 does not
list a version on the sleeve or the cassingle itself but
contains the whistle/howling right through to when the
chorus begins again....unless i'm missing something....i
will try and send out a copy of the cassingle if i can get
my cdr recorder to work.....it's been quite uncooperative
the last few months...
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 05 August 2015 at 8:18am | IP Logged
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I noticed this very subtle difference when I bought a
brazilian issue of her debut album many years ago and
listened to this track. Wasn't positive if it was just
me, so thanks for confirming this!
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 1:49am | IP Logged
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From the montell jordan "this is how we do it" thread:
aaronk wrote:
80smusicfreak wrote:
| *re-christens self as "90smusicfreak"* :-) |
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I expect you to uphold your new name by posting many new threads regarding '90s songs! BTW, I hope this isn't just some feeble attempt to make yourself look younger. :) |
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Hey, aaron - I thought we agreed you were gonna call "90smusicfreak"! ;-) I can absolutely add quite a bit to this, actually...
However, first some useless trivia, just to give some backstory to my info that follows: Ms. Carey is from Greenlawn, NY (north shore of Long Island). In early 1991 - only some nine months after she released the s/t debut album in question in June of '90 (and its fourth single, "I Don't Wanna Cry", was just being added at radio) - I wound up moving only three miles from her '80s childhood home. Needless to say, she was the local heroine at the time, and still frequented the area; her friends & family still lived there. In fact, she was friends w/ the owner of the local indie record store in Huntington (whom I got to know very quickly, of course, and wound up befriending myself as a weekly customer over the next 10 years), and he would often share his stories of how the "butterfly queen" had just stopped by the store the hour/day/week before to personally deliver/promote her latest single/album, and chat about her recent dealings in the biz. As fate would have it, I never ran into her personally while in there, though (always seemed to "just miss her")...
In addition, another frequent customer at that same store - who'd also grown up locally - became a music buddy of mine, and one day he mentioned how of course the newfound diva had attended his high school, although she was (if I remember correctly) three years behind him. The next time I was over at his place digging through his music collection, he also got out his 1985 HS senior yearbook, and sure enough, there was Ms. Carey's close-up among the 9th graders, at age 15. She didn't look anywhere near as glamorous then, but there was no question it was her (as if the name printed underneath the photo wasn't enough!)...
Now, I'm FAR from Mariah's biggest fan - I actually DO like quite a few of her hits from the first five or six albums, but anything from the last 15 years or so has done nothing for me - but it was interesting to follow her career ascent in the '90s from that perspective. Billy Joel was of course the other local hero; the owner of that same indie store in Huntington also told me how the "Piano Man"'s mother would occasionally stop by as well, since she still lived in neighboring Cold Spring Harbor (town for which he titled his 1971 debut album). Oh, and if you're a die-hard fan/trivia buff, it was also at the south end of Huntington on New York Ave. (Rte. 110) that Joel was in a serious motorcycle accident, on 04/15/82. Ah, but now I digress back into the "Me Decade"... :-)
Anyway, on to business:
Underground Dub wrote:
I just noticed that the initial pressing of Mariah Carey's 1990 debut album in the US has a different mix of "Love Takes Time" on it.
Oddly, "Love Takes Time" isn't even listed on the back cover or in the booklet of this copy, but it is on the hype sticker affixed to the front of the packaging and is listed on the disc. (matrix: 2A CK45202 02 A) This probably indicates that it was a last minute addition to the album, becoming its second single. It's fairly easy to spot this US pressing as her name is printed in gold ink on the front, instead of plain white and instead of the white text on black spines the commonly found pressings have, the spines on this have black text on shiny gold ink. |
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Yes, excellent find! :-) That is indeed the first pressing of MC's s/t debut, and it's fairly rare (cassette or CD). I don't have it myself, but as soon as I started to read your post, it jogged my memory, and I can even add ANOTHER early version of this CD that I see is currently missing from Pat's on-line db! Thanks for all of the details on how to spot one of them; while it isn't at the top of my want-list, going forward, I'll definitely be checking the used bins under her name for one of these first pressings while out on my record-store travels; should be interesting to see how long it takes to find one. This version is rare enough that it hasn't even shown up on Discogs yet! However, for those who haven't seen one (or want their own immediately), I did some checking, and it turns out there's currently two used copies listed on eBay, both w/ photos. This one has a "Buy It Now" price of $49.99, and the seller lists his location as "Melville, New York", which I can tell you is also adjacent to Huntington: MARIAH CAREY - "Mariah Carey" (first pressing) (U.S. CD) And here's a second one, priced at $89.00, from a seller in CA: MARIAH CAREY - "Mariah Carey" (first pressing) (U.S. CD) I have no intention of paying that much for one myself, but a couple other used copies recently brought in prices at the lower end of that range on eBay, so it appears that's a $40-$50 CD you found there, Underground Dub (although I admit I've never priced them before)...
Just as most folks like to compare/dissect the single versions of hit songs here, IMHO, it's just as important to do the same w/ the parent albums (as was done in this case), so I love it when album variations like this also come to light; they definitely belong in Pat's on-line db as well. In fact, I know of a few others from the '80s myself that I've been sitting on for a little while now, and intend to report on later, time permitting (some require going into a bit of detail - which cftp seems to like, anyway, lol). And yes, I'm referring to U.S. CDs that are currently MISSING from the db...
Second memory-jogger: As I alluded to above, there was yet ANOTHER early U.S. edition of MC's 1990 s/t debut that is not currently listed in Pat's on-line db, but belongs. And while I'm not prepared to bet the farm on it (don't have it myself), all of the evidence suggests that it, too, contains the rare "muffled whistling" mix of "Love Takes Time" that we're now discussing here. Once again, the song wasn't listed on the packaging, but yes, it appeared on the CD itself. Anyone else remember the "collector's edition" that was issued in a special fold-out cardboard digipak??? That U.S. CD version came out on Columbia CK 46766, and is NOT yet shown in the db. (And when Pat does get his hands on one, it'll of course need to be added under the album's three other top 40 hits, "Vision of Love", "Someday", and "I Don't Wanna Cry", in addition to "Love Takes Time"...)
That version IS detailed on Discogs here, complete w/ excellent photos: MARIAH CAREY - "Mariah Carey" (digipak edition) (U.S. CD) In the Discogs photo, note that the hype sticker on the front cover actually has the album's original "45202" catalog no. at the bottom, which tells me the digipak edition was issued simultaneously w/ the standard jewel-case version that Underground Dub found (read: Columbia was too lazy to print up unique hype stickers for the collector's edition, so they just used the same ones they put on the regulars); perhaps he can confirm that the sticker does indeed match the one on his copy??? Yet when you look at the photos of the spine and the bottom part of the UPC (bar) code on the back cover, you can see that the collector's edition does indeed have its own unique catalog no. of "46766". (You can also see it in the photo of the CD itself, where it appears in the hub opposite "MADE IN USA BY PDO".) There is currently one used copy of Columbia CK 46766 listed on eBay, complete w/ photos, but it will set you back $119.99 - and even though the seller is located in Canada, you can see from the photos it's a U.S. pressing: MARIAH CAREY - "Mariah Carey" (digipak edition) (U.S. CD)
Underground Dub wrote:
| Is the bolded part accurate? |
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It doesn't add up. IMO, it sounds like the Wikipedia author also obtained a copy of CSK 73455 (identical to aaronk's), and mistakenly called what he heard on it a "second" mix, w/o realizing it was really the first, and likely isn't aware that the "muffled whistling" mix actually made it onto those rare first pressings of her album. I completely agree w/ aaronk's analysis as well...
Third memory-jogger, although not regarding "Love Takes Time" or even her 1990 s/t debut: For you die-hard MC fans, I vividly recalled that Columbia used a unique marketing strategy (big surprise, considering who her husband was at the time) for her 1997 album, Butterfly - and sure enough, I just found it on Discogs (first time I'd thought about it in years). They actually offered a cassette/CD combo package of the album here in the U.S., sold in a custom cardboard longbox! (Keep in mind this was more than four years after the labels had stopped using the longbox for CDs in the Spring of '93.) I remember seeing them at the Nobody Beats the Wiz chain in the NYC area, and nowhere else. The combo package was pretty rare, but reasonably priced (I want to say $19.99, at the time???). Again, I was never a huge MC fan, but I remember grabbing one, and being on the fence about buying it (would've been the first time I'd actually picked up anything of hers). But in the end, I put it back, and have been kind of kicking myself ever since - I'm actually quite surprised it's there on Discogs. The standard U.S. label & no. for Butterfly was Columbia 67835, and I was pretty sure the combo had to have come w/ its own unique catalog no. (like the digipak edition of her 1990 s/t debut), which I feel would warrant a separate entry in Pat's db. Looking at the photos on Discogs, it appears my suspicions were correct! Although Discogs also shows the combo as "Columbia 67835", it wasn't true! Looking at the special UPC (bar) code sticker found on the back of the longbox, the combo was considered to be Columbia 68845. Anyway, here's the page for it on Discogs: MARIAH CAREY - "Butterfly" (U.S. cassette/CD combo pack) Managed to find a different site w/ additional info & photos of it as well, and it gives the correct "68845" no.: MARIAH CAREY - "Butterfly" (U.S. cassette/CD combo pack) I don't know if the "68845" no. was actually printed on the cassettes & CDs themselves or if they just had the standard "67835" no. once you ripped open the longbox, though. Judges??? :-)
Sorry for the long post - gotta meet aaronk's new expectations, lol... ;-)
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 6:03am | IP Logged
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Okay... dug out my old UK 3-track commercial CD
single for "Love Takes Time" (656364 2), and guess what!
It has the "muted whistle note" mix, just like the US promo
CD single! It's this release that I have:
http://www.discogs.com/Mariah-Carey-Love-Takes-Time/release/ 3747053
So now I'm extra curious to know if this was actually the commercial single mix in the US, because apparently it was in the UK.
Edited by Brian W. on 06 August 2015 at 6:08am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 7:44am | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak wrote:
From the
TID=840&PN=4">montell jordan "this is how we do it" thread:
aaronk wrote:
80smusicfreak wrote:
*re-christens self as
"90smusicfreak"* :-) |
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I expect you to uphold your new name by
posting many new threads regarding '90s songs! BTW, I hope this isn't
just some feeble attempt to make yourself look younger. :) |
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Sorry for the long post - gotta meet aaronk's new expectations, lol... ;-)
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With only two recent posts about '90s music, I'm sort of leaning toward
"feeble attempt to make yourself look younger." :-) Admittedly, though,
the above post by you does have some good information. Thanks for
adding to the discussion!
Edited by aaronk on 06 August 2015 at 7:46am
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 8:24am | IP Logged
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This thread leaves me somewhat confused. Could someone let me know if I'm understanding correctly?
It seems in the US that the actual commercial cassette & vinyl singles & the video were the 'whistle' version, but maybe the majority of the top-40 radio play was the 'mute-whistle' version due to the promo CD.
If this is the case, I want the version that was played most on the radio, so where can I easily find the 'mute-whistle' version?
Thank you for your guidance!
Andy
Edited by AndrewChouffi on 06 August 2015 at 8:25am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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From what I'm reading so far, it appears that the "muted whistle" version appears on the following formats:
- first pressing of debut album
- US promo CD single
- UK CD single
The 2nd mix with the whistle brought forward in the mix can be found on:
- 2nd pressings of debut album
- music video
- US cassette single
- US 7" single
On this version, the whistling can be clearly heard starting on the word "inside" at the end of the bridge, and it continues very clearly all the way until the end of the first "love takes time" in the chorus. On the first mix, this whistling is barely audible during this section. Above, I said that the whistling was "gone" once the chorus starts, but upon listening several times, it's there just barely. It's so buried by the vocals and keyboards, though, it may as well not be there at all.
Edited by aaronk on 06 August 2015 at 9:38pm
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Paul C
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| the whistling can be clearly heard starting on the word "inside" at the end of the bridge, and it continues very clearly all the way until the end of the first "love takes time" in the chorus. |
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This describes what I hear on my US commercial cassette single. (I don't have the 7-inch single and a commercial CD single was not issued in the US).
The only copy of the Mariah Carey CD that I have is a Canadian pressing that I purchased when she was already several hits into the album, so it's definitely not an early pressing. This version sounds the same to me as the version on the US commercial cassette single.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 2:46pm | IP Logged
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My UK CD single is actually a 5-inch.
Regarding the cassette single, it's also entirely possible
there are two versions of that. There were for "Someday" -
- I used to own identical-looking cassingles for that song,
and one had the album version and one had the New 7"
Jackswing."
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
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I edited my post, Brian, to remove the 3". I had just received a 3" CD single in the mail from Europe, which is why I had it on my brain! And yes, it's entirely possible that more than one mix made it onto the cassette singles.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
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my commercial cassingle has the whistling right through as
stated above.....
the whistling can be clearly heard starting on the word
"inside" at the end of the bridge, and it continues very
clearly all the way until the end of the first "love takes
time" in the chorus.
AND....i got my cdr recorder to work if anyone needs a copy
of the cassingle for their or comparison or research
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 4:43pm | IP Logged
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Just heard Ed's cassingle version myself, and it is
definitely the standard "louder whistle note" version.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 5:03pm | IP Logged
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80smusicfreak--i moved to long island in 1993 and lived in
syosset and plainview for the last 22 years, about 15 mins
from huntington, small f*in world!!
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 06 August 2015 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the research, guys! :)
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Topic: Mariah Carey "Love Takes Time" variations
