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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 05 December 2020 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
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I don't see any of the "D" discs listed. Did they just decide not to include those HitDiscs?
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| Posted: 08 February 2021 at 9:28am | IP Logged
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Can someone please define what format(s) are included on
each disc by the disc number's suffix? For example, if
the disc number ends in "A," which format(s) does it
include?
Thanks!
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 08 February 2021 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
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Including discs A, B, C, D, and E there are a few varieties Including an "I" disc that was an International release I believe.
Looking at the old format, Pre-1996 there was only the "A" and "B" discs. I'm not sure when the "E" and "I" discs started pressing.
"A" covered CHR, AC and Country releases. "B" covered the AOR and Urban releases and also some of the Smooth Jazz as it developed. The oldest Hitdiscs I know of are in the 600
number category. Every week, the sequential next disc would arrive except during the year end holidays, and resume in the first week in January. Later generation "B" discs added,
"New Rock" as a genre though I'm not sure when.
At some point they finally had a rollover of the numbers due to the three digit numbering system. So, there actually was a "000" pair of discs made.
Also, beginning around set "172", they re-arranged the content to include 2 extra discs in the weekly rotation. "C" and "D" discs were added as genres made subtle changes.
"A" still applied CHR and AC While Urban was moved to the "A" disc.
"B" Now covered the AAA, Alternative and Modern Rock genres.
"C" was NAC, Urban AC, and Country. Though I believe The smooth Jazz floated in among the Urban AC frequently.
"D" was singularly formatted as a "Dance" category which pulled in a lot of the charting club tunes along with a number of other white label sources.
"E" was not, AFAIK marketed to Europe, but instead carried a number of the current charting hits in Europe. "EHI" and "IHR" charts.
I think only the "I" discs were for markets outside the US.
GoldDisc was its own omnibus with the genres. Just about anything from any genre ended up on a GoldDisc.
I'm sure there are a number of "Not quite so" instances with my reply, but in general this was how it looked at the time they were printed.
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| Posted: 10 February 2021 at 2:30pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for such a comprehensive reply!
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Hykker
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| Posted: 11 February 2021 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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AdvprosD wrote:
GoldDisc was its own omnibus with the
genres. Just about anything from any genre ended up on a
GoldDisc. |
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I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that, but they did
sometimes put an unusual song or two to fill out a disc.
They did have libraries for different formats, and there
was some overlap between them (for example oldies and
classic rock might share some discs). Lots of
duplication of songs on discs, even within a library.
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 11 February 2021 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that, but they did
sometimes put an unusual song or two to fill out a disc.
They did have libraries for different formats, and there
was some overlap between them (for example oldies and
classic rock might share some discs). Lots of
duplication of songs on discs, even within a library. |
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I was attempting to describe GoldDisc in as few words as possible. You are correct about the discs being more of less formatted to a particular set of similar songs.
GoldDiscs also started out in a three digit numerical order and quickly grew larger. (Actually, there are a number of two digit discs as well.)
I gave up trying to figure out how they decided to group the music when I discovered the four digit sets. There was a bit of uniformity in the ones starting at 1000,
through 3000 as they were mostly from the "Country" genre. I never realized I knew so much about country music until I saw all the classic hits listed within.
I have collected quite a number of GoldDiscs over the years through auctions and such. When I discovered that TM Century, or Jones TM was doing their own edits on songs
along with putting nearly all the tracks through an aggressive noise reduction software treatment, I began to slow down on my collection. Seems the more I learned about
these processes, the less I liked the product. Advice from members here has been quite enlightening!
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 18 March 2021 at 7:23am | IP Logged
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I got to pick apart the TM Century library in detail as I upgraded some '90s-era track for myself.
For tracks released from 1993 to 1998 (I didn't look at anything newer than that), the TM Century tracks are outstanding. They seem to be digital clones of the promo CD singles, usually with a level change (to decrease the levels so that they roughly match '80s-era releases), occasionally an EQ adjustment, and no noise reduction whatsoever. The tracks are labeled in a manner that's consistent with the promo CD singles ("Edit", "LP version", "Supa Dope Fly 7 Inch Remix Edit", etc.) I was very impressed.
For tracks released around 1992, I saw some tracks that were labeled sloppily ("Edit" when it should have been "Single Version", etc.) The sound quality is still great.
For tracks released around 1991, virtually none of the tracks were labeled with the correct designation. It took a significant effort (thanks to Discogs) to match run times with the printed times on promo CD singles to figure out what versions were in the TM Century library. The sound quality is still good, at least on tracks that I spot-checked against the promo CD singles.
For tracks released around 1990, in addition to lacking the proper labeling, it seems that TM Century used an analog step in their mastering. (Play the CD, send through an analog mixing board to tweak EQ, re-digitize.) The analog process adds a little hum to the background, which you can hear at the end of the fades. Very disappointing.
I didn't dig into anything released before 1990.
I can generalize about some other series from that time frame:
Hitmakers seemed to use digital clones of the promo CD singles. On most others, the full dynamic range was intact, but on some tracks, I saw clipping at values less than 100%, like around 70% or 80%. On a handful of tracks, they shortened the tail of the fade. They didn't attempt to properly label the tracks according to the promo CD single (no "Edit", "Single Version", etc.)
TuneUp (Network40, Album TuneUp, etc.) also seemed to use digital clones of the promo CD singles. I didn't see any instances of clipping. On a handful of tracks, they shortened the tail of the fade. No designations in their labeling (no "Edit", etc.)
Hot Hits was a jukebox/mobile DJ service. I think their masterings were digital clones of the promo CD singles, possibly with level changes, but no EQ adjustments, no compression/limiting/clipping, no NR, and no truncation of the fades. For the 1991-1993ish time frame, Hot Hits seemed to use track 1 of the promo CD singles, but this wasn't a hard and fast rule. No designations in their labeling (no "Edit", etc.) On the whole, I used the Hot Hits version over others whenever I didn't have the promo CD single.
Spotlight On Hits was a lesser-known jukebox service. They, too, used digital clones of the promo CD singles, possibly with level changes, but no EQ adjustments, no compression/limiting/clipping, no NR, and no truncation of the fades. For the 1991-1993ish time frame, Spotlight On Hits seemed to use the album version, but this wasn't a hard and fast rule. No designations in their labeling. I often used the Spotlight versions when I didn't have the album version from a record-company release (either the album version on a promo CD single, or the album version on the actual full-length CD from the artist).
There were other services as well (Promo Only probably being the best-known), but I don't have many of those.
The good news is that on the whole, tracks from these series sound just as good as the promo CD singles, and should be far easier to obtain than the promo CD singles. (Those promo CD singles are crazy expensive nowadays!)
I'll be happy to answer specific questions if you have any, but I wanted to summarize in this post some generalities before they slide out of my short-term memory.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:21am | IP Logged
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That's great to know.
<I got to pick apart the TM Century library in detail>
Are you referring to HitDiscs A (and B, C, etc.?)
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Hykker
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| Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:13am | IP Logged
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As always, your review of the various music services
was interesting and appreciated. In the 90s there
were several other series of (generally monthly) "hit
discs", some of which were only around for a
relatively short time. Not sure how those outfits
made any money...we never had to pay for any of them.
All were a good source, especially in smaller markets
that may not have gotten as good label service as the
larger ones. There were some that contained unique
versions, one that immediately comes to mind was Gina
G's "Ooh Ah Just A Little Bit" that ran 3:00 with a
cold ending.
You didn't mention Top Hits USA in your review, though
you've mentioned them in the past. What's your take
on them?
crapfromthepast wrote:
There were other services as
well (Promo Only probably being the best-known), but I
don't have many of those. |
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In the mid-late 00s/early teens one of the PDs I
worked with also had a mobile DJ service and
subscribed to them. He let me rip some stuff from
them, and I found they'd often upcut at the beginning
of a song. There were also what were apparently house
edits of some songs.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:16am | IP Logged
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While we're on the subject of TM Studios tracks, is
there a master list of their tracks from their download
service? They seem to use the same numbering scheme as
a country library I have from Jones Radio Network (which
I think was bought by TM).
Unfortunately, the crib sheet is missing, and I don't
really know country music well enough to ID the songs.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 19 March 2021 at 7:42am | IP Logged
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That's funny; I forgot to mention the weekly subscription service that I've been using since 1996 (only 25 years!)
Top Hits USA puts out weekly discs, and "recurrent" discs every two months. They started in 1992 and run to this day.
I've found that the six recurrent discs do a stellar job of rounding up radio's biggest 100 (approximately) hits of the year. I've used their recurrent discs consistently in my personal library since about 1999, and will continue to do so as long as they offer the service. They've had superb track selection, comparable to TM Century, and I'd argue that they've even been better at it than TM Century because of the recurrent discs. (If I had to jump into the biggest hits of 2005, for example, I can use the recurrent discs as a guide, knowing that anyone who listened to radio back then would immediately know everything on the recurrent discs.)
Their sound quality has improved over the years. Initially, they used an analog system to dink with the volume levels and give an artificial boost to the first few seconds. This mimics what we might do on the air, with the intent of being usable in an automated system. I do understand why it's there, but it's awful. I think they ditched the volume boost by the mid-'90s. They also shortened the fade on a lot of tracks.
I think they switched to a digital mastering system around 1999, which vastly improved the sound quality.
One caveat which persists to this day: the last few seconds of the song include a high-frequency cue tone in one channel, which can be used in an automation system to trigger the next song. It's higher than human hearing, and well above the 15 kHz cutoff that FM broadcast uses. But it's annoying, and it's on every one of their tracks.
I use Top Hits USA for '90s-era songs only as a last resort.
For 2000 and everything after, I just don't care as about the music as much (I host a radio show that plays older music.) For me, I use the Top Hits USA discs exclusively for 2000 and everything after, because I know the versions will be the hit versions, and I just don't care so much about the cue tone at the end.
To answer Gordon's question: I got a copy of the full TM Century library, presumably what they stored internally on their hard drives. I'm not sure how it relates to what they sent out on the HitDisc/GoldDisc CDs. I don't know if it's complete; there are quite a few HitDisc tracks that aren't in the library that I have. All the tracks in my copy of the library have filenames that start with a unique eight-digit number. (The first one is 00000002 Yes - Owner Of A Lonely Heart.wav, because I know you're wondering.) The numbers seem to correspond to when the song was added to the library. The numbers around 00005000 seem to correspond to the 1990 time frame, for what it's worth. I was unimpressed with tracks having ID numbers smaller than roughly the 00005000 number (not a hard and fast cutoff; just a trend.)
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eric_a
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| Posted: 19 March 2021 at 1:15pm | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
crapfromthepast wrote:
There were other services as
well (Promo Only probably being the best-known), but I
don't have many of those. |
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There were also what were apparently house
edits of some songs.
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Starting in the mid-00s, iirc, they started labeling
certain tracks as exclusive PO Clean Edits, masking
questionable lyrics. For what it's worth, I'm not
aware of any non-lyrical edits but it's definitely
possible.
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AdvprosD
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eric_a wrote:
Starting in the mid-00s, iirc, they started labeling
certain tracks as exclusive PO Clean Edits, masking
questionable lyrics. For what it's worth, I'm not
aware of any non-lyrical edits but it's definitely
possible. |
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I'm pretty sure they started doing this a long time earlier than the mid 2000's
I can remember HitDiscs labeled this way in the 80s and also noted that as a selling point on the GD3 demo disc, Circa 1990. They had this disc
set up to show how splendidly they managed to mask the words bull-sh*t from a Pink Floyd "Money" single.
Unless I misunderstood the statement above, They have been "Selling" that for a long time. Also calling their cuts "Radio" versions, rather than "45" versions.
The most notable in that respect was the Miami Sound Machine hit "Bad Boy." Where the intro from the album version sounded nothing at all like what the radio played.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 20 March 2021 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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eric_a wrote:
For what it's worth, I'm not
aware of any non-lyrical edits but it's definitely
possible. |
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One that jumped out at me was "Hello" - Martin Solveig.
Our station played the full version, but the PO edit was
different than what I heard on the radio elsewhere.
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eric_a
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| Posted: 20 March 2021 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
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AdvprosD wrote:
eric_a wrote:
Starting in the mid-00s, iirc, they started labeling
certain tracks as exclusive PO Clean Edits, masking
questionable lyrics. For what it's worth, I'm not
aware of any non-lyrical edits but it's definitely
possible. |
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I'm pretty sure they started doing this a long time earlier than the mid
2000's
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I thought Hykker was referring specifically to the Promo Only service -
which is what I meant to reference - but I may have misunderstood.
Agree that TM and others’ house edits definitely predate the ‘00s.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 20 March 2021 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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When I was a subscriber to TM's PrimeCuts from 2005-2018,
they had custom edits they called Xtra Clean for R&B/Hip
Hop tracks that had radio edits but TM cleaned up even
more.
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Hykker
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| Posted: 21 March 2021 at 6:00am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
When I was a subscriber to TM's
PrimeCuts from 2005-2018,
they had custom edits they called Xtra Clean for
R&B/Hip
Hop tracks that had radio edits but TM cleaned up even
more. |
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The JRN Chartbreakers discs also had custom "extra
clean" versions, and not strictly rap songs...there
was one for Zac Brown Band's "Toes". The regular
radio edit ducks the word "ass" but leaves in the line
"roll a big fat one", the JRN version substitutes
"toes" for "ass", and the other line is ducked or
edited.
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 30 March 2021 at 2:41pm | IP Logged
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I was looking over some shelves for mis-sorted discs and found an "L" disc in the collection. I had forgotten about it entirely. So, the "L" series was a Latin,
Rock, Dance and Pop issue of HitDisc. This one was from 08-11-2000 and was numbered 369L. I'm not sure when those began production or when they stopped. Artists
and titles are in Spanish, naturally.
I also noted with GoldDisc, there was a notation in the database that wasn't printed on any of the discs, as far as I know. The notation referred to "N" for No-Noise.
If I am remembering correctly, these were the discs that got the Q-Sound treatment for noise reduction. Some GoldDiscs didn't get the No Noise treatment, and didn't
have the "N" classification.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 30 March 2021 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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I don’t know the exact production dates on the Latin discs, but
eventually they became the PrimeCuts series, correct? PrimeCuts Latin
was still being serviced all the way until they closed up shop.
In the TM database, the disc numbers with the R at the end vs discs
with the N were to distinguish between the old discs with the red font on
the label and the newer ones with the black font that have the No Noise
logo. No Noise was a noise reduction system by Sonic Solutions. (Q-
Sound is something entirely different and was not used on GoldDiscs.)
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AdvprosD
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| Posted: 31 March 2021 at 7:11am | IP Logged
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Thanks Aaron. I must be thinking of one of the other services. Possibly Top Hits USA that used Q-Sound.
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Topic: TM Studios Song Search
