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Paul C
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| Posted: 06 May 2014 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone know if these four digital only, database listed, American Idol related Top 40 hits are studio recordings or live performances from the show?
- David Cook - "Dream Big"
- David Cook - "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For"
- David Cook - "The World I Know"
- David Archuleta - "Imagine"
A bit of background information about these songs:
During the seventh season of American Idol in 2008, the songs performed by the top contestants (I believe it started with the top 10), began to be made available for purchase on iTunes. The producers of the show, however, were concerned that if the public knew how many downloads of each song had been sold, it might affect how viewers would vote. They therefore instructed iTunes to not publicly reveal sales figures for these songs, to not list them on the iTunes sales charts, and to not supply sales data for these songs to trade publications. Had Billboard been supplied with this data, it is likely that almost all would have made the Hot 100 and many (perhaps dozens) would have made the Top 40. Since these songs were not Top 40 hits, I was not interested enough to buy any of these downloads.
The two finalists that season were David Cook and David Archuleta. They made their final performances on Tuesday, May 20, 2008. At the end of the show that night, Ryan Seacrest announced that the songs performed that night were, as usual, available for sale on iTunes, but all the songs from that season would only be available for another week. I still had no interest in buying them; iTunes was not releasing sales data for these songs and, therefore, they were not charting.
What I didn't realize was that because it now no longer mattered if people knew the sales figures of these songs (since the season was over), the show's producers had given iTunes the go ahead to release the sales figures and supply them to trade publications. On the Hot 100 dated June 7, 2008, ten of these songs by David Cook and three by David Archuleta debuted (not counting David Cook's first 'official' single, "The Time Of My Life"), of which the four songs listed above were in the Top 40. The chart was made public on Billboard's website on Thursday May 29.
That day, as is my custom, I went to iTunes to purchase downloads of the songs that had made the Top 40 of the Hot 100 for the first time that week...only to discover that these four songs had already been removed from iTunes!! Because the songs went off sale a week after the season ended and because of how the Hot 100's tracking week worked out, by the time the Hot 100 chart on which these songs debuted was released to the public, the songs had already been taken off sale and have not been made available again since.
After surviving my quasi panic attack (and vowing to never again ignore any warnings from Mr. Seacrest), I started searching for these songs anywhere. I was finally able to find files of these songs. The versions I have are live performances from the show.
The following season followed pretty much the same format. Songs performed during the season did not chart until the first Hot 100 released after the final show. This time I was taking no chances, so after the final show I purchased a bunch of the downloads, although it is my recollection that that year they remained available for much longer than a week. These are studio recordings, not the actual live performances.
There are two reasons that I have some doubt whether the versions that I have of the four 2008 songs listed above are the actual iTunes versions:
1) These are live versions, while the iTunes downloads the following season were studio versions.
2) On the live versions that I have, the opening and closing audience applause does not fade in or out, but abruptly starts and ends cold. One would think that if these were the Itunes downloads, they would have made the effort to fade the audience sounds in and out.
Is there anyone still reading this who can shed some light on the issue?
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mstgator
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| Posted: 10 May 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged
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For what it's worth, the Whitburn books do show those four charted songs as
"live" versions. Unfortunately I don't own any of the Cook/Archuleta singles
that debuted that week (aside from "Time Of My Life") so I can't confirm
firsthand.
Edit: The "Deleted Top 40 digital download singles" thread confirms the hit
versions were live (unable to post the direct link correctly thanks to my
wonderful computer).
Edited by mstgator on 10 May 2014 at 1:26pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 10 May 2014 at 2:03pm | IP Logged
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Here's a direct link:
Deleted Top 40 digital download singles
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mstgator
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| Posted: 10 May 2014 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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Thank you Todd!
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JL328
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| Posted: 11 May 2014 at 6:15am | IP Logged
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mstgator wrote:
For what it's worth, the Whitburn books do show those
four charted songs as
"live" versions. Unfortunately I don't own any of the Cook/Archuleta singles
that debuted that week (aside from "Time Of My Life") so I can't confirm
firsthand.
Edit: The "Deleted Top 40 digital download singles" thread confirms the hit
versions were live (unable to post the direct link correctly thanks to my
wonderful computer). |
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Yes, all 4 of these tracks were live
recordings. They were all taken directly from the AI "Top 2" finale.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 18 May 2014 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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Thanks to all who have contributed information.
I have been able to confirm that studio recordings of these four songs were never made. That year studio recordings of songs performed by the contestants were released once they were down to the Top 12 finalists. When they got down to the point where finalists started to perform more than one song per week, studio recordings of only one of those songs per contestant per week were made. Studio recordings were never made for songs performed the final week (including all four of these songs), except for the first official single.
So although the four songs that made the Top 40 were live recordings, most of the songs that made the Hot 100 but not the Top 40 (but that would have made the Top 40 in prior weeks had iTunes not been prohibited from releasing the sales data) are studio recordings.
I'm still not sure if the files I have are the same as the actual iTunes files (I suspect they are not), because I have heard that the live performances were remixed (including removing much of the audience noise) before they were released digitally. Also, as I state above, the audience noise on the files I have does not fade in or out, which it does do on the iTunes downloads I have of songs from the following season.
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JL328
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| Posted: 26 May 2014 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
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Paul, I don't have the Cook and Archuleta downloads, but I've heard them on
various websites (YouTube, etc.) as I patiently wait for them to be available
somewhere...
The first point at which you can tell if you have the correct iTunes version of
"The World I Know (American Idol Performance)" as opposed to a rip from the
tv broadcast or something else occurs in the first few lines. When Cook
sings "As the Sweet Breeze Blows" in the second line, you can hear some
clapping on the tv broadcast, as well as a guy screaming "yeah!" in the
crowd. Pretty sure this is edited out of the iTunes version.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 16 July 2014 at 8:24am | IP Logged
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I think we're finally getting to the bottom of this.
I have been able to conclude that the live performances were definitely remixed before being placed on sale on iTunes.
David Cook - Dream Big
This is the iTunes version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBmivjxLmk
And this is a rip from the broadcast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6eCDBZFgQs
One difference between the two is that on the iTunes version, a piano can be clearly heard coming in at the start of the second verse (at about 0:50). The piano is barely audible on the broadcast rip.
David Cook - I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
This is the iTunes version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JULh8iabwTM
And this is a rip from the broadcast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bah4umJfgHg
The synthesizers are much more in he foreground on the iTunes version, which also eliminates some of the audience sounds (eg. the scream from an audience member after the "only to be with you, only to be with you" line).
David Cook - The World I Know
JL328 has already told us in the above post how to differentiate between the iTunes version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDFO5LtwsYc
and a rip from the broadcast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu2W8L2vHH0
Unfortunately, there are a number of 'glitches' in the YouTube file of the iTunes version.
David Archuleta - Imagine
This is a tricky one, because Archuleta had performed the same song in February during an earlier round of the competition.
My statement in an earlier post that studio versions were not made for any of these four songs is not correct. A studio version of "Imagine" was released in February 2008 when Archuleta performed it at that time. It would have charted at that time had iTunes not been prevented from releasing the sales figures. I came across the studio version a few weeks ago on YouTube. Unfortunately, it appears to have been removed. (I don't know what the uploader had done to the file before uploading it, but it had horrible sound quality.)
This is the iTunes version of the live version from the finale in May 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKWFdjMHjwY
This is Archuleta's performance from February 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqknGd3Atko
I don't know if a live version of the first performance was made available on iTunes (in addition to the studio recording) and, if so, whether this is that iTunes version or simply a rip from the February 2008 broadcast.
Ordinarily, I would be the last person to advocate taking a song from a website like YouTube. But these are songs that were legitimately available for only a very short period of time (in accordance with the contracts the artists had signed), and there is now no way to legitimately obtain these songs. It is highly unlikely that these recordings will ever be released again, since that would likely require the agreement of many parties: the artists, 19 Entertainment (the show's production company), Sony/BMG, and the artists' current labels (neither is signed to 19 Entertainment or Sony/BMG any more). That a few years ago 19 Entertainment switched its label affiliation from Sony/BMG to Universal perhaps complicates the issue even further.
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JL328
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| Posted: 19 July 2014 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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Paul,
Are you sure there was a studio version of Imagine?
I researched this topic thoroughly for the "Deleted Downloads" thread. I
spent a lot of time (more time than anyone should) reading American Idol
fan pages and blog posts from 2008. I also scoured youtube and other
websites with links to the various songs.
My findings were (as you noted) that David Archuleta first performed
"Imagine" in February 2008 on the Top 20 show. The Top 20 is a "semi-
finals" show and occurs during the portion of the competition where they
eliminate several contestants per week (from 24 to 20 to 16 to 12). My
research showed that AI and iTunes didn't release studio versions until
they got to the "Finals," the single elimination phase that begins at the top
12. There are definitely studio recordings from the Top 12 (including
"Eleanor Rigby" by David Cook and "We Can Work it Out" by Archuleta),
but I've not heard a studio recording from any earlier show. Also, I know
I'll never be able to find them again, but, while researching, I also read AI
blog posts from fans lamenting the lack of studio versions prior to the top
12 (take that for what it's worth, but those people are hardcore and left no
doubt they knew what they were talking about... in painful detail).
My research also showed that iTunes and AI began releasing live (remixed)
recordings for the Top 24 show. So, I know that for the Top 24, top 20,
and top 16 shows, there were live recordings released on iTunes
(including Archuleta's version of "Imagine" from Top 20).
So, there is definitely a live recording of David Archuleta's top 20 Version
of "Imagine." It was entitled "Imagine (American Idol Performance)" on
iTunes and runs about 2:17. When AI and iTunes released the live version
of "Imagine" from the finale (i.e., the Top 40 hit), they entitled it "Imagine
(American Idol Performance) [Top 2]" in order to differentiate it from the
earlier live performance. There definitely was no studio version released
to coincide with the top 2.
That said, I did not get to hear the since-deleted video that you found on
Youtube. Is it possible it was mislabeled and was a studio version that
Archuleta did for something other than AI (or possibly not a studio
version at all)? I know he's continually performed this song (including
during a guest appearance on a later season of AI). Apologies... not trying
to be a contrarian or to question your post, but your finding that there
was a studio version of Archuleta's "Imagine" released to coincide with the
Top 20 show is at odds with everything I've read and learned on this
subject.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 19 July 2014 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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Thanks as always for your input, JL328.
I actually have no idea of the origins of this studio version of "Imagine", and with your additional input it would very much appear that my conclusion that this was an iTunes release coinciding with Archuleta's February 2008 performance of the song is not correct. It's yet another indication of just how complex an issue this is for us Top 40 collectors.
In listening to this version again (which runs 3:44 and is just a voice and an acoustic guitar), there are a couple of signs that it is not an iTunes release from 2008. One is the horrible sound quality (it sounds like a 32kbps file or something) and the other is that he sounds younger on the recording. And then there's the very real possibility that it was incorrectly labeled on YouTube and that it isn't David Archuleta at all!!
I'd be happy to send you a copy to see what you think.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 07 September 2014 at 6:34am | IP Logged
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has anyone tried to reach out to the AI fan sites to see if
there is any way to get copies of the missing itunes
downloads?....i'm sure one of the crazy AI or Archuleta or
Cook fans/fansites has copies of the missing files on their
computers!!!...just a thought
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edtop40
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 16 December 2020 at 12:49am | IP Logged
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On a side note outside the top 40, does anyone have the Live version of Billie Jean from 2008 that is about 2 min long that was an Itunes download? Apparently I have a studio version, but according to Whitburn that is not what charted...
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"I'm a pop archivist, not a chart philosopher, I seek to listen, observe and document the chart position of music."
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Topic: David Cook / Archuleta 2008 American Idol
