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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 10:02am | IP Logged
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I have the 45 version of "Midnight Train To Georgia" on Rhino's Can You Dig It box set, and the sound is completely awful! If I had to guess, I'd say it was mastered from cassette tape. All of the high end has been rolled off, making it sound very flat, and a lot of noise reduction has been applied.
Now, in doing a quick comparison with the LP version, I don't hear any differences in the mix. Am I missing something, or can the LP be edited to make the 45? If so, why in the world did Rhino use this horrible sounding master for their box set?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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Nevermind...I now hear the difference in reverb on the drums.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 10:14am | IP Logged
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On the 45 mix there is additional plate reverb on EVERYTHING including drums lead vocals & The Pips' background vocals.
There is one edit point also.
Andy
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Grant
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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Varese Vintage has a terriffic sounding 45 version on one of their more recent comps. I just can't remember which one or find it. But, I do have it. I'll keep you posted...
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 4:53pm | IP Logged
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Pat mentions in the book that the Verese CD runs short and does not contain the reverb.
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Grant
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 6:37pm | IP Logged
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Darn! VA claimed it was the 45 version. I shouold know better. They frequently get things wrong.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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I tried at one point to recreate the 45 from the LP version. I couldn't get the edit right, then I started to notice the mix differences. Yes, the 45 mix is somewhat lo-fi; it definitely has the "AM radio" quality.
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Grant
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 9:13pm | IP Logged
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So, the Rhino-mastered version on CD IS correct!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 11:24pm | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
| I tried at one point to recreate the 45 from the LP version. I couldn't get the edit right, then I started to notice the mix differences. |
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The edit is a bit tricky because it's not just an edit. They actually overlapped two sections of the song for about a second or so. I was able to recreate this part using the LP version.
Roscoe wrote:
| Yes, the 45 mix is somewhat lo-fi; it definitely has the "AM radio" quality. |
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You got that right! This one needs to go right next to "Magic Carpet Ride" as one of the worst sounding masters in history. But if I had to guess, I'd say it wasn't mastered that way on purpose. It really sounds like the tape is bad, but Rhino tried to remove the excess hiss and noise. The LP version sounds just fine, as far as sound quality goes.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 11:25pm | IP Logged
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Grant wrote:
| So, the Rhino-mastered version on CD IS correct! |
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Yes, the Rhino CD does contain the reverb and edit. This must be the actual 45 master, because they wouldn't use a source as bad as this one if a better one was available (i.e. making their own edit of the LP version).
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Grant
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| Posted: 15 June 2006 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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Th4e muffled sound is what I remember radio played back in the day.
There are quite a few 45s out there that have this type of sound. It's just that in the CD age, producers and engineers got into the bad habit of brightening everything up. Me? I'll take a sound closer to what is on the tape, for better or for worse. If I want a fixed-up sound, I can do it myself. I recently redid my 1974 comp and wanted to add "Midnight At The Oasis" by Maria Muldaur. I could have easily used the Rhino version, but it was too bright/compressed. Sounds good, but it's not what I heard on the radio back then. So, I dug out my Warner's "Singers And Songwriters" CD that came out in 1985 and used the mastering on that one. It was transfered flat and sounded totally uncompressed. But, it also sounded a bit dull. So, just to get it into the ballpark of the other songs, I used a compressor just a wee tad. So, I got the best of both, the clean sound I heard on radio in 1974, but not bright.
Hey, I know you all don't care about my mastering mumbo-jumbo, but it's early!:)
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Tim Lyman
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| Posted: 15 June 2006 at 5:21pm | IP Logged
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The 45 also has a prominent tom tom which is completely absent from the LP version.
I just finished comparing my Buddah 45 to the Rhino CD, and they both have the same muddy sound quality. :(
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Indy500
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| Posted: 12 September 2013 at 8:06am | IP Logged
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On the 2013 remaster CD of "Imagination" the following bonus tracks are listed:
Midnight Train To Georgia - Single Version
Window Raisin Granny - Single Version
Midnight Train To Georgia - Short Version - Previously Unreleased
Midnight Train To Georgia - Instrumental - Previously Unreleased
Was there a short promo of Midnight Train to Georgia in 1973?
Edited by Indy500 on 12 September 2013 at 8:09am
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 28 October 2013 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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Willie:
The Funky Town Grooves CD that has those bonus tracks was
recently released. I'm pretty sure someone on this board
would have identified a short promo version of this chart
topper prior. It is labeled Previously Unreleased on my
copy of the CD for track 12 which is the short version that
runs (3:17), so I would assume this is the first time it's
ever seen the light of day so to speak.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 17 November 2013 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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I was just able to hear a copy of the "Single Version" and "Short Version" from the remastered CD. I can, unfortunately, report that the "Single Version" does not match the actual US 45 version (assuming that the Can You Dig It box set is correct). The version on this new CD does not have the additional reverb and percussion.
The "Short Version" also does not match the mix of the US single version. Interestingly, the "Short" and "Single" versions on the CD don't appear to have come from the same tape. The "Short" version sounds like it comes from a higher generation tape and has different EQ.
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 18 November 2013 at 12:49pm | IP Logged
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Good info Aaron. I was pleasantly surprised at how good that "short" version sounded in comparison to the incorrect "single" version on this new release on the Funky Town Grooves label.
BTW, the version included on this disc for the group's song "Where Peaceful Waters Flow" is the same incorrect version that has been on every CD release before. This is not the first time this reissue label has included an incorrect single version on one of their CDs (they used the incorrect edit of "Disco Nights (Rock Freak)" by GQ that has been on countless discs prior). Apparently, if the tape is labeled single version they never bother to check if it's actually correct or not.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 06 June 2017 at 7:55pm | IP Logged
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The song was originally recorded in 1972 by the guy who wrote it, Jim Weatherly, as "Midnight Plane To Houston". Wasn't a hit.
It was covered in 1972 by Cissy Houston (Whitney's mom), and retitled "Midnight Train To Georgia". Wasn't a hit.
And then it got to Gladys Knight And The Pips. BIG hit, hitting #1 in 1973.
The LP version sounds quite nice, and there are plenty of CDs that feature the LP with nice sound.
Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1973 (1988) sounds great. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 6 1973 (1990) - digitally identical
- Madacy's Rock On 1973 (1996) - digitally exactly 0.9 dB louder
- Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 17 1973-1975 (2002) - digitally identical
There's a different analog transfer on Rhino's Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 11 (1991), which sounds about as good as the Billboard disc. The same analog transfer is used on:- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 8 1973 (1996) - digitally exactly 0.4 dB quieter
- Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 10 From The Heart (1997) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
There's one more very clean analog transfer on Time-Life's Legends Of Soul Vol. 6 Gladys Knight And The Pips (2001), which has even more high end than the Rhino discs.
All of the above sound quite nice.
Now, the discs to avoid:- Very Best Of (1988) - sounds like mud. Worst of the bunch.
- Razor & Tie's 2-CD Sweet '70s Soul (1991) - cuts off opening drumbeat entirely, but otherwise sounds close to the Billboard disc
- Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 13 1973 (1992) and AM Gold Vol. 3 1973 (1992), which are identical in every way - left/right channels reversed, but otherwise sounds close to the Billboard disc. There seem to be many, many tracks on this disc with their left and right channels swapped.
- JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll 1970-1974 (1994) - cuts off opening drumbeat entirely, and sounds muddy
- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Seventies Party Mix (1996) - left/right channels reversed, but otherwise sounds close to the Billboard disc
- Razor & Tie's 7-CD 70 Number One Hits Of The 70s Vol. 1 (1998) - digitally exactly 1 dB louder than Sweet '70s Soul, and therefore cuts off opening drumbeat entirely
And then there's the 45 version, which really does sound as bad as the 45 for "Magic Carpet Ride". Not sure how this ever made it out the door. On Have A Nice Decade, you can at least hear some tape hiss at the end of the track. Even the hiss is missing from Can You Dig It.
My recommendations:
For the LP version, go with Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1973 (1988).
For the 45 version, if you really insist on hearing it this way, go with Rhino's Have A Nice Decade.
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 11 June 2017 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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I notice that there is no mention of the single version on
the Greatest Hits 1973-1985 Hit Single versions on the
Varese Sarabande label.
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crapfromthepast
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Thanks to Tom O, I can report that the French import CD Knight Records (KNCD 12004) does not have the true 45 mix. Instead, it seems to be the LP mix with a little bit of reverb. Listen at 0:42 to the true 45, and you'll hear a distinct low tom-tom in the right channel. There's no such tom-tom in the LP mix, or in the version on this CD. I didn't check if the edit points are correct.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 14 June 2017 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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Thanks to Grant, I can report that the Varese CD also does not have the true 45 mix. This, too, is the LP mix. I didn't check if the edit points are correct.
But boy, does it sound crisp on this disc! The hi-hat is right there. It may be a treble boost, or may be better source tapes. Either way, it's pretty eye-opening.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Gladys Knight - Midnight Train To Georgia
