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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 22 October 2008 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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I called Collectors Choice to order the CD in the evening on the 14th, and was told that it was out of stock. When I remarked to the operator that it seemed odd that it would already be out of stock on its release day, she said that they probably hadn't updated it yet. But my guess is that is has been delayed.
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jono
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| Posted: 22 October 2008 at 8:06am | IP Logged
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ccmusic.com now lists the release date as 11/11.
Jon O.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 06 November 2008 at 12:01am | IP Logged
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Got an email telling me my Tommy James 40th Anniversary shipped today!
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 November 2008 at 6:08pm | IP Logged
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Day late, but mine shipped today!
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 07 November 2008 at 6:19pm | IP Logged
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My copy arrived today. A few quick observations after a cursory listen:
"Hanky Panky". The splicing glitch on all previous dubs I've heard at the 2:22 mark on this track is gone.
"Gettin' Together" is at the correct slower speed of the original 45. Yay!
"Out Of The Blue" has the complete, longer fade of the vinyl 45, but the CD track runs faster. By the end of the tune, it is running 1.63 seconds ahead of the 45.
"Mirage" is the correct mono 45, with the extra reverb on the phrase "where are you?" present at the 1:07 mark, just as it originally was on the single. The CD track here runs slower than the 45, with a difference of just over nine-tenths of a second at the end. The CD fade is more gradually-sloped and runs a few seconds longer than it did on the 45. The group's final "just a mirage" did not originally make it onto the 45, and it sounds kind of odd here. Perhaps that's why it was originally cut.
"Ball Of Fire" disappoints me. Both promo and stock copies of the 45 were mono, and featured the strongest bass line on any TJ&TS single. But the stereo mix on the CD has the bass entirely in the right channel, making it sound much less beefy than the killer 45 did; the bass drum now seems to have more presence than the bass guitar. Summing the track to mono doesn't quite provide the same result. Even so, this mix is far superior to the stereo album version. The fade begins later than on the 45 and runs longer, too.
"Celebration" is mono, although not listed as such on the CD packaging.
"Calico". One of the main reasons I ordered this set was because advance indications were that this track was the single version, in stereo. This track is not designated as being in mono on the packaging. Alas, it is mono, just as the "stereo" DJ 45s were.
"Love Is Gonna Find A Way". Was the promo 45 an edit? I don't have a stock copy. My stereo/mono DJ 45 has a stated time of (3:58); the track on the CD runs an actual (5:15).
"Three Times In Love" runs longer than the 45/LP here, too.
The liner notes state that "Say I Am" and "It's Only Love" were both million-sellers. Joel Whitburn says otherwise.
One other point: I'd always thought that the distortion on some of the Roulette 45s was inherent in the transfers and cutting processes done back in the '60s, but I'm hearing a fair amount of that on this new set, too, like on the organ on "Mirage". So I guess those 45s were more faithful to their original sources than I'd thought.
It may seem that I'm nitpicking here, but sets like this one are supposed to address all of those nits. Or will the 50 Years collection take care of those? :) All the same, I'm thrilled to have the single mixes on CD. Gonna have to get out the 45s to match those fades and timings, though.
Edited by Yah Shure on 07 November 2008 at 9:28pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 November 2008 at 7:16pm | IP Logged
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I figured this collection was going to feature all the correct 45 mixes/versions. So, they only got some of them right?
So, John, two questions...
Is Draggin' The Line the long sought after mono 45 version?
Is Sweet Cherry Wine the proper 45 version?
Edited by eriejwg on 07 November 2008 at 7:16pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 07 November 2008 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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John, yes to both questions. "Draggin' The Line" is the 1971 hit mono 45 version with brass overdubs and more subdued keyboards, just as they said it would be. It is not the original 1970 hornless B-side of "Church Street Soul Revival" version, which also had more prominent keyboards in the mix.
I detected a couple of differences in the fades upon hearing them for the first time, but I haven't listened to most of the track endings yet.
Edited by Yah Shure on 07 November 2008 at 9:30pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 10 November 2008 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
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My copy of the collection arrived today.
Noticed, too, that "Crystal Blue Persuasion" doesn't seem to match the pitch of the 45. And, the quality of the recording is a disappointment.
The length runs almost 4:00.
Edited by eriejwg on 10 November 2008 at 4:51pm
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jono
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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Got my copy Saturday.
In comparing "Three Times In Love" from this collection to my 45, I think it's actually sped up slightly on the "40 Years" cd. In a rough comparison, at the end of the song, my 45 was 2 seconds behind the cd. I thought I had read somewhere several years ago that many European tapes ran faster than U.S. tapes, for a reason I can't remember but sounded convincing at the time. Anyone know anything about this being fact or fiction? If fact, it may explain a little about some of these pitch differences if these master tapes came from Europe, as rumored. Either that or my old turntable is too slow (which maybe I shoulda checked before posting!).
As Yah Shure mentioned, the song does run longer (about 4:17 on the cd) than on the 45 - the fade actually continues a few extra seconds.
Also, "Sweet Cherry Wine" runs about 5-7 seconds shorter on the cd than on my 45, but I haven't figured out why yet.
Jon O.
Edited by jono on 11 November 2008 at 10:24am
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 11:05am | IP Logged
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I figured out "Crystal Blue Persuasion" runs :02 faster on the CD than it does on the 45. And, the CD's fade is about :02-:03 longer.
"Mony Mony" runs 2:48 on the CD, database says the 45 runs 2:55. Is the CD too fast here too?
What 45 sources did they use for these songs that the pitch/fades are wrong?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 11:51am | IP Logged
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I admit it, I'm nitpicking...LOL.
"Draggin' The Line" also runs about 1-2 seconds faster on the CD than the 45.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
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"Mony Mony". At John's request, I compared the new CD track to the 45. This one's a mess.
For starters, the CD track runs much faster than the 45, by a whopping 1.9 percent! Once I slowed the CD track down, the two played together just fine.
Up until the 2:24.666 mark, that is. At this point (following the middle break) it immediately became apparent that there was an edit on the CD track which did not appear on the vinyl 45. The edit occurs as Tommy sings the word "Yeah!" On the 45, the crowd sounds continue uninterrupted behind that word, but on the CD track, the crowd suddenly disappears at that same "Yeah!" The word "Yeah!" sung by Tommy on the CD track is not from the 45 version.
There is another difference that occurs at this point. A second crowd response is missing from the CD track as follows: (Tommy in bold type, crowd in regular)
CD: "Yeah!" "Yeah!" Everybody!
45: "Yeah!" "Yeah! Yeah!" Everybody!
And a third difference arises. From the "Everybody!" point on, the two tracks are once again from the same take. However, the CD track begins to run faster than the 45 (remember, I'd already slowed the CD track down once.)
In order to mitigate the speed differences, I matched the end point of the CD fadeout to its vinyl counterpart, which confirmed the bad news: the CD track trims off the last four seconds of the 45. Out of curiosity, I cranked up the end of the CD fade, and discovered that the last 1.5 seconds were very fuzzy. Are we looking at some master tape damage, perhaps?
Edited by Yah Shure on 11 November 2008 at 10:45pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
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"Sweet Cherry Wine" runs about 1.698 seconds slower than the vinyl 45. The fades do not show any significant differences.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 11 November 2008 at 10:19pm | IP Logged
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I'm actually thinking of putting my collection on ebay. This extra work to match 45 pitch/fades is for the birds...
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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As much as I realize the effort put into this collection by some key names in the industry, it was just not for me. Guess I've become a 45 version 'purist'. The right way, or no way.
I put mine on ebay last night. :(
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 12 November 2008 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
| "Mony Mony". Up until the 2:24.666 mark, that is. At this point (following the middle break) it immediately became apparent that there was an edit on the CD track which did not appear on the vinyl 45. |
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Sounds like this is the mono album version then. According to the database, "the LP version...has an ever so slightly different edit at 2:25 than the 45 version."
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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Has anyone else reviewed this CD? What about Crimson & Clover? Is that correct?
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| Has anyone else reviewed this CD? What about Crimson & Clover? Is that correct? |
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I don't have the 45s to compare them to, but I did receive my copy yesterday. "Crimson and Clover" is mono, and the actual running time is 3:20. Since the single runs much shorter than the album version, it seems unlikely they would have used the wrong tape for that one.
Hopefully Pat will get a review copy soon. It sounds like "Mony Mony" may be the only bad mistake on this.
Edited by Brian W. on 13 November 2008 at 1:43pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:18pm | IP Logged
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I guess I was wondering if it's the actual 45 version, or the 'noble attempt' that mentioned on several CD's in the database.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 13 November 2008 at 8:56pm | IP Logged
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John, my "Crimson And Clover" Roulette stock 45 is the more common pressing, with "Some Kind Of Love" on the B-side, rather than "(I'm) Taken." The 40 Years CD does have the correct 45 edit. This one's pretty darn close to the 45; the CD runs ever-so-slightly slower at the beginning, but then keeps pace for the duration, ending up a mere 00:00.056 slower than the 45.
However (and there seem to be a lot of those in this thread) the CD track does fade out earlier, at a slightly steeper rate, deleting the last 2.583 seconds. From a purist's standpoint, this is not ideal. But from a practical standpoint, the majority of that final 2.583 seconds on the 45 is two chimes, at a barely-audible level, and even that is mostly lost in the surface noise of the record. I can guarantee you that those final chimes were never aired on top-40 radio unless some deejays were too busy to notice that the record had run out.
But as minor as they are, the two chimes are a bit interesting. The backing track fades out completely, and those two chimes are left all by themselves, with no fade between them, and they complete the last bar of the song. It would have been nice to have heard them without the vinyl surface noise. <sigh>
The bottom line on "Crimson And Clover": the CD track is fine.
Edited by Yah Shure on 13 November 2008 at 9:09pm
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Tommy James 40th Anniversary CD
