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Brian W.
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:43pm | IP Logged Quote Brian W.
eriejwg wrote:
I guess I was wondering if it's the actual 45 version, or the 'noble attempt' that mentioned on several CD's in the database.


Anything on here that's mono is not going to be the "noble attempt at recreating the 45 version." That note refers to trying to create a stereo 45 version where one did not exist before.

The problem with "Mony Mony" appears to be is that they used the mono LP version instead of the mono single version.

I'll add to all this that "Three Times in Love" is the previously issued CD length. It runs longer than the US 45.

Edited by Brian W. on 13 November 2008 at 9:45pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:45pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg
Thanks, Brian, I have an order in for a 45 for Mony Mony.

Edited by eriejwg on 13 November 2008 at 10:09pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:50pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg
Thanks for the info, guys.

Edited by eriejwg on 13 November 2008 at 10:08pm
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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 17 May 2015 at 5:05pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo
I've just acquired a copy of this CD and while I am not
too fussed about having the exact lengths and fades of
the corresponding vinyl 45s, I'd at least like to have
everything playing at the correct speed.

Can anyone tell me how much I need to slow down the
following tracks in order to have them playing at the
true 45 speed, please? I'm using Audacity so a
percentage amount would be ideal, thanks.

Crystal Blue Persuasion
Out Of The Blue
Gettin' Together

Thanks in advance!
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aaronk
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Posted: 18 May 2015 at 8:57am | IP Logged Quote aaronk
I also purchased this CD within the last year, and overall they did a great job
with it. I can tell for sure that "Crimson And Clover" and "Draggin' The Line"
are vinyl dubs, although they did a really nice job cleaning them up. There
may be one or two others that are needle drops, but those two stuck out to
my ears.

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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 18 May 2015 at 4:41pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo
Aaron: Agreed, overall it's a pretty good compilation.
My ears aren't as sharp as yours so I hadn't noticed the
vinyl dubs. But at the end of the day, I'd rather have
some nice sounding vinyl dubs than nothing at all.

I just need to figure out the speed correction for Out
Of The Blue. Big thanks to edtop40 for his help with
the other two.

Edited by Bwci Bo on 18 May 2015 at 6:12pm
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 18 May 2015 at 6:52pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure
Bwci Bo wrote:
I just need to figure out the speed correction for Out Of The Blue.


You're in luck, Duane! The same "Out Of The Blue" 45 needledrop I used for my initial analysis is still on the hard drive and is headed your way.
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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 18 May 2015 at 8:30pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo
Cheers John!
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The Hits Man
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Posted: 22 May 2015 at 8:32pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man
Until the true mono 45 version of "Mony Mony" shows up
digitally, i'm happy to keep using my needledrop of the
45. I understand that the reason Tommy James didn't use
the single version tape is because the it was always
wrong, and he wanted to use the opportunity to fix it.
Revisionist history.

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TallPaulInKy
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Posted: 02 November 2019 at 10:06am | IP Logged Quote TallPaulInKy
Bwci Bo wrote:
I've just acquired a copy of this CD
and while I am not too fussed about having the exact
lengths and fades of the corresponding vinyl 45s, I'd
at least like to have everything playing at the correct
speed.


The problem with comparing the 45s against a CD
reissue, you almost have to use the DJ copies for
comparison. Record companies had various pressing
plants to manufacture product for the two coasts and
sometimes one in Nashville or Chicago for the Mid West.
When the disk masters were cut for the various plants
(they did not ship metal masters to other plants, as a
general rule) Typical singles were cut 1/4 musical tone
faster, unless requested to be cut flat on the work
order. Therefore a difference of a second or two in
playing time was common.

So best not to get too excited about a couple seconds
difference.

The reason the DJ copy is the definitive one, is
because normally it is the one approved by the
producer, they were generally pressed in the same
plant.
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Hykker
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Posted: 03 November 2019 at 7:23am | IP Logged Quote Hykker
TallPaulInKy wrote:
The reason the DJ copy is the
definitive one, is
because normally it is the one approved by the
producer, they were generally pressed in the same
plant.


Maybe, maybe not...that varied by label. I don't know
about Roulette but at the very least London and Atlantic
group promos were different in different parts of the
country. West coast of both were Monarch pressings on
styrene, east coast Atlantic were on vinyl. London
promos were styrene, but not Monarch pressings. Not sure
about the midwest or south.
I believe all Capitol promos were from the same plant.

YahShure could probably shed a lot more light on this.
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 03 November 2019 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure
TallPaulInKy wrote:
(they did not ship metal masters to other plants, as a general rule)


The only TJ&TS Roulette 45 I have that was NOT mastered by Bell Sound is "Hanky Panky", and that's most likely because the song was recorded at WNIL, and not in New York City. From "Say I Am (What I Am)" onward, every one of them, whether manufactured at RCA in Rockaway or Indianapolis, or at Columbia, was pressed from metal parts sourced from lacquers cut by Bell Sound Studio in NYC. The recording sessions took place at Allegro Sound, then the mastering to disc was done at nearby Bell Sound. Because no plants west of Indiana were contracted by Roulette, it may have been more economical to send the metal parts, instead of paying each of them to provide custom mastering.

Shelley Products was used on occasion, but neither they nor Columbia was ultized after "Out Of The Blue", leaving RCA as Roulette's only pressing plant for 45s through the early '70s.

TallPaulInKy wrote:
The reason the DJ copy is the definitive one, is because normally it is the one approved by the producer, they were generally pressed in the same plant.


In most cases, the "A" and "B" sides on the promos and stocks were the same, other than the difference in labels. The promos were the first ones out of the chute, obviously, but that didn't necessarily make them any more "definitive" than the earliest stock pressings, given that both configurations were made from the same metal parts within each plant. Between Ritchie Cordell and Bo Gentry, then Tommy, I seriously doubt that any of them, as producers, approved promo runs and stock runs separately. They simply signed off on "the single."

TallPaulInKy wrote:
So best not to get too excited about a couple seconds difference.


Perhaps that may be true of the rest of the world, but such minutiae is the very point of many of the discussions on this site!

My gripe about this particular CD release was that there were a few songs that didn't sound the same as those lacquers that were cut by Bell Sound. "Ball Of Fire" was a real letdown. The compilation producer could have compared it with the tape and said, "Hey, we need to kick up the bottom end so the tape on that song matches the power of the 45."     
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Paul C
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Posted: 05 November 2019 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote Paul C
The tapes used for this release, at least for the Roulette material, were supposedly found in the EMI vaults in the UK. So these may well be the UK single versions.
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Edoz
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Posted: 29 September 2020 at 1:48pm | IP Logged Quote Edoz
Bumping this up because...in Yah Shure's post detailing the differences between this CD and the original singles, he says that "Gettin' Together" is the same speed as the commercial 45.

Pat's notation says that it is slightly faster.

I searched and didn't find any followup from Yah Shure or others.

So...is Pat right?
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 02 October 2020 at 10:03am | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey
Ed the commercial 45 and CD appearance on this cd appear
to be equal.
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