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edtop40
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| Posted: 25 December 2006 at 2:24pm | IP Logged
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pat
the 45 actually runs 4:05 and NOT 4:01 as stated in the
db....
Edited by edtop40 on 11 February 2015 at 5:39pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 23 August 2008 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
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Ed:
According to the database, DJ 45 copies of Madonna's "Holiday" run 4:01, not 3:50 as stated on the record label. But like you, Brian W. has reported elsewhere on this message board that the actual commercial 45 run time is 4:06, not 3:50 as stated on the record label. Not sure if the DJ 45 indeed runs :05 shorter than the commercial 45 or if the 4:01 DJ time is a typo. Perhaps Pat can verify this for us. But at any rate, the commercial 45 run times should be incorporated into the database comments for "Holiday".
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Underground Dub
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My recreation of the 45 runs exactly 4:06.
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Pat Downey
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My dj 45 runs (4:00) on the mono side (matrix #R-11861-SH2 7-29748-BNY-3190-v1-m-dj-sh2) and (4:03) on the stereo side (matrix #R-11862-SH2 7-29748-BNY-3190-v1-s-sh2). Both sides state as running time of (3:50).
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Underground Dub
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Is it possible that the 7" single runs faster than the CD master (I started with an original West Germany for US pressing)?
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 26 August 2008 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
As always, I appreciate you updating our information in the database... Regarding "Holiday", you correctly indicate that commercial copies of this 45 run 4:06, but you didn't mention that the record label incorrectly states the run time at 3:50.
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Indy500
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Does anyone have the edit points to recreate the 45?
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NightAire
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I've found in my library an "extended remix" that runs 6:58 approximately.
It doesn't sound like the 1987 "You Can Dance" album remix (but may contain some elements later included in the remix), and the LP version isn't this long... and the LP version is what was on the 12" discs of the era.
The intro is clearly different from the LP mix, but the next three minutes similar to the LP mix. From that point, the mixes go their separate directions... so it's not just an extended LP version as I originally thought.
It says the source is "The Warner Bros. Remixes Bootleg Disc 1" but I'm having a challenging time finding any information about this, either.
Was this mix available to clubs in 1983, and I've just overlooked the source?
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mjb50
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@NightAire -
Jellybean's 6:58 full-length Extended Remix was only officially released on a US promo 12", which DjPaulT did a nice transfer of in February 2012.
Edited by mjb50 on 26 July 2023 at 2:59am
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mjb50
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@Indy500 -
The 45 version is properly on CD on the 1996 Japan-only CD Single Collection. Its fadeout ends about 1 second later than the actual 45, so you can hear music for about 1 second after "holiday...celebration" vocal, whereas I think (based on YouTube rips) you can't really hear anything past "celebra-".
The 45 version was also released in 2022 on CD & digital on the Finally Enough Love: 50 Number Ones compilation. However, it's brickwalled, and the song carries on for another 13 seconds longer than the single, with the fade beginning where the actual single ends, not reaching total silence before abruptly cutting off.
To re-create with the album version from a common US CD of the Madonna eponymous album, it's as follows:
0. If using Adobe Audition, go to Edit > Preferences > Data and set both delete/cut/edit crossfade values to 9 ms.
1. Remove lead-in silence and the 8-bar intro, but leave 0.030s before the first beat intact, so as not to cut off the synth strings starting up in the right channel. Do a sinusoidal fade-in from zero during that section. All times now are relative to the beginning of that fade-in being 0:00.
2. Remove 0:16.596 (0.004s before the downbeat) to 0:33.197 (0.015s before the downbeat).
3. At the start of the "it would be so nice" vocal, remove 1:45.755 (0.029s before the clap) to 2:02.354 (0.024s before the clap).
4. Remove 1:51.993 (0.009s before the downbeat) to 2:00.280 (0.017s before the downbeat).
5. Remove 3:07.207 (0.007s before the downbeat) to 3:15.496 (0.017s before the downbeat).
6. Remove 3:10.837 (0.018s before the downbeat) to 3:44.048 (0.020s before the downbeat).
7. Remove 4:06.000 and beyond to match the 1996 CD, or 4:04.537 and beyond (cutting off "celebration" before the last syllable) to match the 45 (I think; see above).
8. Apply a linear fade-out from 3:50.832 to the end. Do this a second time and it will pretty closely match the 45.
By the way, this is one of those songs where I can totally see the 45° tape splices causing the right channel's edit points to be 9ms before the left's.
Edited by mjb50 on 26 July 2023 at 1:59am
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Kiefer2
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| Posted: 26 July 2023 at 8:01am | IP Logged
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@mjb50
Nightaire states that the mix he has doesn't sound like the
"You Can Dance" version of "Holiday". Isn't the vinyl that
you linked to merely the "You Can Dance" version on its own
(unsegued with the other tracks)?
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mjb50
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| Posted: 26 July 2023 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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Yes, you're right. It's the You Can Dance version with unspoiled intro & outro. Sorry.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 26 July 2023 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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As further evidence these mixes are different, I believe the label length is a typo, as the official videos on YouTube run the LP version at 7:58, not 6:58.
It's nice to have, it's an interesting variation on the original mix, I just hope to be able to figure out where it originated. :-)
(I'm working a couple of options right now; if I get any answers, I'll post them here.)
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mjb50
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I don't understand; the Madonna LP version runs 6:07, I thought. That's what I have, and a quick look on a file-sharing network shows that's roughly the typical album version length, not counting trailing silence. There are leaked stems floating around which run 7:41. Someone mixed them together and called it "Holiday (Unreleased Shep's Stems Mix)". That's all very recent though.
You might want to bookmark the Remix Service index and hotdiscomix :: Remix Service Index. The latter mentions that the Prime Cuts edit from 1986 claims to run 7:42. It's the only long, old version listed for that song.
Update: OK, I've downloaded that Warner Bros. Remixes Bootleg CD and confirmed that the 6:58 version of Holiday on there is in fact the unsegued promo 12" version I described earlier, as released in 1987 to promote You Can Dance. It is not different from what is on You Can Dance other than the intro & outro being intact.
Edited by mjb50 on 27 July 2023 at 7:27am
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NightAire
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| Posted: 26 July 2023 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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OK, time for me to eat multiple servings of humble pie, and I completely misunderstood.. several things.
First: mjb50 is 100% correct. The version I was completely confused about was simply the unsegued, 1987 remix. I'm used to the version on the album itself, and the two don't exactly track. The original 1987 label is correct.
(I had it in a "1984" video and nowhere did I have it marked "1987" which is my bad.)
My source... well, sometimes, one never reveals their sources. But it's likely a superior disc dub.
The Madonna video I thought was an "official" video from Sire / Warner Bros. / Madonna was, in fact, just a random dude posting on the internet. I don't know where he got HIS mix, but it's as official as your girlfriend's little brother typing away down in the basement.
I have no good excuse, I only plead before the courts that I had massive insomnia last week and my brain is still not working well...
(Here, BTW, is that video. Your guess is as good as mine... no, probably better. Madonna ( Holiday Spécial Extended Remix))
I'm ok if we want to delete the dust storm I kicked up with my message. I'm happy to go back and remove what I said, but don't want the replies left, making others look crazy...
Edited by NightAire on 26 July 2023 at 4:18pm
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aaronk
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mjb50 wrote:
Update: OK, I've downloaded that Warner Bros. Remixes Bootleg CD and confirmed that the 6:58 version of Holiday on there is in fact the unsegued promo 12" version I described earlier, as released in 1987 to promote You Can Dance. It is not different from what is on You Can Dance other than the intro & outro being intact. |
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Is this actually available to download somewhere?
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mjb50
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| Posted: 27 July 2023 at 4:16am | IP Logged
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@NightAire – No problem! We all have these brain farts from time to time, especially which such large libraries, as many of us here have.
As for it being a superior disc dub, I can say, based on looking at the spectrogram, that it's a homemade edit/reconstruction. The first 18.6 seconds and 12.7 seconds come from a different source than the rest of the track. There are also hints of a couple of not-quite-100% declicked ticks (inaudible but visible) in the fadeout. Looks to me like someone just replaced the mixed ends from You Can Dance with audio from a clean vinyl transfer.
@aaronk – I used a file-sharing network. I try not to name or link non-reputable sources in public posts. PMs are fine.
(Public mention of what might technically be piracy havens is inadvisable for obvious reasons, but the real risk is that this community has a variety of opinions about such things, and I don't want to antagonize anyone here or stir up a debate in the wrong area of the board.)
Edited by mjb50 on 27 July 2023 at 7:26am
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Topic: madonna "holiday"
