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jimct
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| Posted: 11 January 2007 at 2:43am | IP Logged
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Both the mono and stereo sides of my promo 45 have a listed time of (3:29), but an actual time of (3:39). Perhaps the two actual-timed (3:32) T/L CDs in the database somehow approximate this DJ 45 short version. Both of my commercial 45 copies do reflect Pat's current database information for it: a listed of time (3:29), and an actual time of (4:32).
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 11 January 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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Jim, is your dj copy that runs (3:39) just an early fade of the LP?
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jimct
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| Posted: 11 January 2007 at 10:30am | IP Logged
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No, Pat, it is an edit. After just a :17 intro on the promo, Parker kicks in with his first lyrical word, "Jack." The musical intro is much longer than :17 on the commercial 45.
Edited by jimct on 11 January 2007 at 8:53pm
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gnj1958@sbcglob
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| Posted: 23 June 2007 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
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There's a lot of difference's between the album version and the 45 version. One of my fave all time songs so I should know LOL. It is editable but not necessary as both version should be easily available.
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eriejwg
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I have the Sound Of The Seventies - 1978 (Take 2) version. Wonder if someone at Time-Life tried to match the track to the length of the 45 version by fading it when they did.
Definitely, an unsuccessful attempt.
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 30 June 2007 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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gnj1958@sbcglob wrote:
| There's a lot of difference's between the album version and the 45 version. One of my fave all time songs so I should know LOL. It is editable but not necessary as both version should be easily available. |
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My original 45 and LP versions are exactly the same in every way.
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gnj1958@sbcglob
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| Posted: 01 July 2007 at 12:58am | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
| My original 45 and LP versions are exactly the same in every way. |
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Here is what I posted in another thread regarding this song.
I have Jack & Jill on three different CD's.
The Best of Ray Parker Jr & Raydio
Classic Soul
100 All Time Dance Hits of the 70's
The "Best of" version I assume is the album version which clocks in at 4:38. The two compilation versions are identical and both clock in at 3:39. The intro is shorter. The body of the song is the same then the last minute or so of the song is edited at various places bringing the oohs and aahh's and yeah yeah's closer together.
The short version is the same as the 45 I used to have back in the 70's. This was when I was still living in the UK. Whether the US 45 was different i.e longer, I don't know.
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 01 July 2007 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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gnj1958@sbcglob wrote:
The short version is the same as the 45 I used to have back in the 70's. This was when I was still living in the UK. Whether the US 45 was different i.e longer, I don't know. |
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I know speculation is frowned on here, but it's possible that A)the U.K. single was edited, and/or B)there were two U.S. commercial pressings: one with the edit, and the other with the LP version, which I have.
The practice of issuing both an LP version and later, an edited version on a stock 45, was quite common in the 70s. Many times I have gotten irked by some edit appearing on a CD, only to find years later that the same edit was indeed issued on a commercial 45, even though I have a 45 with the LP length. This happened to me the other day when I discovered that the now-common short version of Cheryl Lynn's "Got To Be Real" was also issued on the commercial 45. At least now I don't get so upset anymore.
Edited by The Hits Man on 01 July 2007 at 2:44pm
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abagon
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| Posted: 10 March 2009 at 6:36am | IP Logged
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I have 2 commercial 45s of the "Jack and Jill" (Arista AS 0283)
One has the actual running time (3:39), the listed time "3:29" matrix number "2480-S"
Another 45 has the actual running time (4:32), the listed time "3:29" matrix number "2480-S-2"
--abagon
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 10 May 2015 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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The LP version (also on second pressings of the commercial 45) runs 4:33 on the great-sounding Ray Parker Jr. Greatest Hits (Arista, 1993). It runs 106.3 BPM throughout (live drummer playing to a click track). This whole disc sounds great, with low-generation source tapes, plenty of dynamic range, fine EQ, and no traces of noise reduction. There are digital clones on:- Rhino's Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 19 (1995; digitally identical)
- Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 17 Heart To Heart (1997; digitally exactly 2 dB quieter)
I have the LP versions on two Australian EMI multi-disc collections, both of which sound pretty bad and seem to use noise reduction:- EMI Australia's 5-CD Seventies Complete Vol. 1 (1997)
- EMI Australia's 5-CD Pop Complete (1999)
Time-Life did an early fade of the LP version, in attempt to match the printed 45 length. There are other instances of Time-Life fading the LP version early, rather than reproduce the true 45 edits, like Barry White's "It's Ecstasy When You Lay Down Next To Me". This early fade (which didn't exist on record when the song was a hit in 1978) is on:- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 20 1978 Take Two (1991)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 17 1978 (1997; digitally exactly 1.303 dB louder than Sounds)
The 45 edit (on promo 45s and first pressings of the commercial 45) runs 3:39, and is uncommon on CD. It's on Connoisseur Collection's 5-CD 100 Dance Hits Of The '70s (1988), which is a European collection. It also may appear on Arista/Legacy's Playlist, although I can't confirm Playlist. Here are editing instructions for recreating the 45 edit from the LP version, using the 1993 Greatest Hits as the source:
Segment 1
30 beats long
Extends from 0:00.0 to 0:17.4 of the LP version and the 45 edit
Ends on a downbeat
Remove the 32 beats from 0:17.4 to 0:35.5 of the LP version.
Segment 2
Begins on a downbeat
Extends from 0:35.5 to 3:18.6 of the LP version
Extends from 0:17.4 to 3:00.5 of the 45 edit
Ends on a snare on the word "you"
Remove the 32 beats from 3:18.6 to 3:36.7 of the LP version.
Segment 3
Begins on a snare on the word "you"
Extends from 3:36.7 to 3:59.2 of the LP version
Extends from 3:00.5 to 3:23.1 of the 45 edit
Ends on a snare on the word "the"
Remove the 32 beats from 3:59.2 to 4:17.3 of the LP version.
Segment 4
Begins on a snare on the word "the"
Extends from 4:17.3 to 4:37.1 (end) of the LP version
Extends from 3:23.1 to 3:42.9 (end) of the 45 edit
Your mixdown will run 3:40 (excluding outro silence), or 3:42.9 (including outro silence), with edits at 0:17.4, 3:00.5 and 3:23.1.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 11 May 2015 at 7:52am
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 10 May 2015 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for that. I did not know that there were two
pressings of the 45, as I only have the second pressing
with the album version. I always figured the shorter
edit was a DJ promo.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 11 May 2015 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
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Great detective work as always, guys...
crapfromthepast wrote:
Time-Life did an early fade of the LP version, in attempt to match the printed 45 length...This early fade (which didn't exist on record when the song was a hit in 1978) is on:- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 20 1978 Take Two (1991)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 17 1978 (1997; digitally exactly 1.303 dB louder than Sounds)
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While Pat DOES acknowledge the two different commercial 45 versions in his notes for this song in the db, I see he still hasn't added any descriptors next to any of the individual CDs, which we now know is necessary here. Clearly, he will need to add "(LP/long 45 version faded early in an unsuccessful attempt at re-creating the short 45 edit)" - or something to that effect - next to the two Time-Life CDs cited above...
Quote:
| The 45 edit (on promo 45s and first pressings of the commercial 45) runs 3:39, and is uncommon on CD. It...may appear on Arista/Legacy's Playlist, although I can't confirm Playlist... |
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Ah, good observation. :-) Of course, the Playlist CD came out just a little over a year ago, in January of 2014 - long after the last post on this song here in March of '09, from abagon. I don't have the Playlist CD, either, but a check on-line reveals that Arista/Legacy DOES state "(single edit)" next to "Jack and Jill" on the back cover art of that CD - and along w/ Pat's confirmation in the db that the song has an actual time of (3:40) there, I'm also inclined to believe that they actually got it right on that one! So assuming that's true, Pat will need to add a descriptor next to that CD as well - perhaps "(this is the correct short 45 edit)"...
As an aside, I got to meet Ray (along w/ his bandmate/drummer, Ollie Brown, of '80s hit-making duo "Ollie & Jerry") after a show in 2009; he was promoting his then-latest album, I'm Free!. Great concert - they even did a portion of "Breakin'...There's No Stopping Us". :-) Both were very fan-friendly, and it was great to chat up Ray about some of his '70s & '80s hits for a few minutes...
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Topic: Raydio-"Jack And Jill"
