Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: various 45 timing anomalies

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davidclark
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Posted: 11 May 2007 at 7:20am \| IP Logged

Trying to nail down some potential discrepancies on several 45 timings. Perhaps the 45 face is wrong, or the Hot 100 Annual (2005 edition) is. [I do realize the timing indicated in the book often comes from the 45 face, however this newer addition of this book has fixed some timing errors from previous editions, however perhaps not all. Also, timings for the later tracks could be for a radio edit...] Someone with the actual 45 could verify this info for us. This could result in "45 label timing" database updates as required.

Gary (U.S.) Bonds - Dear Lady Twist. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing as 2:32. Database implies 2:25.

David Bowie - Blue Jean. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 4:08. Database times all 3:09.

Solomon Burke - Got To Get You Off My Mind. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 3:32. It is 2:32.

Cheap Trick - The Flame. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 4:30. It's somewhere between 4:40 and 4:45 according to the database.

Duprees - You Belong To Me. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 2:39. Does the 45 end cold or fade and if so at what time?

Earth, Wind & Fire - Saturday Nite. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 3:42. Database indicates fades at about 3:35-ish.

Five For Fighting - Superman (It's Not Easy). Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 3:35. Database times all 3:40-ish.

Enrique Iglesias - Hero. Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 4:09. Database time is 4:23.

Janet Jackson - Someone To Call My Lover. Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 4:14. Database time is 4:32.

Jan & Dean - Baby Talk. Hot 100 Annual 45 timing 2:17. Database timings all 2:22-2:30.

The Kingsmen - Money. Hot 100 Annual 45 timing 2:06. Database 2:15-2:30.

Cliff Nobles & Co. - The Horse. Hot 100 Annual 45 timing 2:25. Database 2:44.

*Righteous Brothers - Little Latin Lupe Lu. Hot 100 Annual indicates 45 timing as 2:00. All my versions are 2:13+. Not a Top40 hit so not in the database, but I ask!

Savage Garden - Crash And Burn. Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 3:45. Database shows a 3:49 radio edit and long 4:40 timings.

Nina Sky Featuring Jabba - Move Ya Body. Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 3:30. Database timing 3:50.

Vertical Horizon - Everything You Want. Hot 100 Annual indicates single time 4:01. Database has 4:05 and 4:16 timings.

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 12 May 2007 at 10:35am \| IP Logged

I'm nearly certain that Five for Fighting's "Superman (It's Not Easy)", Enrique Iglesias' "Hero", Savage Garden's "Crash and Burn", and (I'm pretty sure) Nina Sky featuring Jabba's "Move Ya Body" were never issued on a commercial cassette or CD single format, so chances are Whitburn's listed times for these songs are based on promo single releases (unless these titles were issued on a very small quantity of vinyl pressings I'm not aware of).

jimct
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Posted: 12 May 2007 at 3:01pm \| IP Logged

David, my copies of your 4 pre-1964 commercial 45 requests are current deeply buried, but I will hopefully be able to get at them in the new few weeks. Most of your 1964 & newer inquiries are currently much easier for me to quickly access, and I should have some answers for you on those within the new few days.

jimct
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Posted: 12 May 2007 at 9:13pm \| IP Logged

David, I'll leave your year 2000+ and later inquiries for our younger experts on the Board for now. I do have some of them, though, and I'll revisit your post if no one else helps you, and mine through my promo CD singles. But, here's a few answers for now:

-David Bowie--"Blue Jean": My commercial 45 has a listed time of (3:08) and an actual time of (3:09), so your Whitburn book's listed (4:08) time is likely a typo.

-Cheap Trick--"The Flame": My commercial 45 has a listed time of (4:30), but an actual time of (4:41).

-Earth, Wind & Fire--"Saturday Nite": Both my commercial 45 and the stereo side of my promo single have a listed time of (3:42), but an actual time of (3:38). The mono side of my promo also states a time of (3:42), but actually runs (3:37).

-The Kingsmen--"Money": My commercial 45 has both a listed and actual time of (2:26), so your Whitburn book's (2:06) listed time is likely a typo.

-Cliff Nobles & Co.--"The Horse": My commercial 45 has a listed time of (2:25), but an actual time of (2:21). Having heard this song a million times over the years, I am 99.9% certain that the 45's shorter length is simply an early fade of the (2:44) CD timings that appear in the database.

There's five of 'em knocked off to get you started, my friend!

TomDiehl1
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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 1:55am \| IP Logged

Quote:

Gary (U.S.) Bonds - Dear Lady Twist. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing as 2:32. Database implies 2:25.

--I timed my stock 45 of this record (LeGrand 1015, mono) out to 2:24, and the label states 2:24. The B side of the 45, however, does have a listed label time of 2:32 so perhaps the wrong side was being looked at when the time of the record was being written down.

Quote:

Duprees - You Belong To Me. Hot 100 Annual states 45 timing 2:39. Does the 45 end cold or fade and if so at what time?

--I timed my stock 45 of this record (Coed 569, mono) out to 2:37. It fades, starting at 2:28. The label states 2:39.

Quote:

Jan & Dean - Baby Talk. Hot 100 Annual 45 timing 2:17. Database timings all 2:22-2:30.

--I timed my promo 45 of this record (Dore 522, mono) out to 2:17. The label states 2:17. I timed my stock 45 (also Dore 522, mono with a listed label time of 2:17) out to 2:20, the promo version does have a quick and sudden fade, and fades earlier than my stock copy does. The trail-out numbers on my promo 45 are: 45-LDE-25 and a 1 with a circle around it. I also see Delta 29439 in the trail out area. The stock copy shows 45-LDE-25 and a 2 with a circle around it and in another area i see 9M, but no delta numbers on this side (however the b side delta number can be found in the trail out of the B side).

Quote:

*Righteous Brothers - Little Latin Lupe Lu. Hot 100 Annual indicates 45 timing as 2:00. All my versions are 2:13+. Not a Top40 hit so not in the database, but I ask!

--I timed my stock 45 of this record (Moonglow 215, mono) out to 2:15. The label states the running time as 2:00. The label also states "Exclusively distributed through Dart Record Sales", and in the trail out is M-9121. Scratched out in the trail out is delta 45434, as well as 45-M-215-1-RE-2.

Edited by TomDiehl1 on 13 May 2007 at 2:07am

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davidclark
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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 6:56am \| IP Logged

thanks so much for the clarifications everyone!

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eric_a
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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 1:55pm \| IP Logged

I have some tracks on Promo Only discs, so they may be radio edits:
Enrique - Hero (4:09)
Five For Fighting - Superman (3:38)
Nina Sky - Move Ya Body (3:51)

Then, I have the following stock CD singles:

Vertical Horizon - Everything You Want (RCA 65981)
1 - Radio Mix - (Listed 4:06. Runs about 4:05)

Radio was and has been split between playing this Radio Mix and the (4:04) Modern Rock Mix, which I have on a Promo Only disc and which is probably on promo singles. FYI, the Radio Mix starts with an acoustic guitar, while the Modern Rock Mix has some sort of synthy sound at the beginning and throughout the track.

Janet Jackson - Someone To Call My Lover (Virgin 38799)
1 - So So Def Remix (Listed 4:40, actual ~4:35)
2 - Single Edit (Listed 4:14, actual ~4:13)

Most pop radio played #2, though my Promo Only disc has a 4:32 version, which was probably the album mix.

Edited by eric_a on 13 May 2007 at 2:00pm

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 16 May 2007 at 7:24am \| IP Logged

It's been established now that commercial 45 copies of The Duprees' "You Belong to Me" have a faded ending. Does anyone know if the group's 1962 vinyl LP release of the same title contains the faded ending as well, or does it feature the cold ending?

Edited by Todd Ireland on 16 May 2007 at 7:25am

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 02 June 2007 at 10:29am \| IP Logged

Pat:

Given that the three versions of Vertical Horizon's "Everything She Wants" on the promo CD single release all pretty much have the same run times, it would be helpful for singles collectors if you could please add to the database that commercial CD single copies feature the "radio mix" and run 4:05. Thanks!

PopArchivist
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 11:58am \| IP Logged

Quote:

-Cliff Nobles & Co.--"The Horse": My commercial 45 has a listed time of (2:25), but an actual time of (2:21). Having heard this song a million times over the years, I am 99.9% certain that the 45's shorter length is simply an early fade of the (2:44) CD timings that appear in the database.

The database says that two 45's of this exist. The only mono file runs the wrong time located on Beg Scream and Shout 1 which ends at 2:52. Can that version be properly edited to match the second 45 version?

Edited by PopArchivist on 20 March 2022 at 11:58am

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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 2:53pm \| IP Logged

Rich,

Found a mono file on Qobuz and a 45 dub on YouTube. Speed
corrected and corrected the fade on the Qobuz file and now it
runs 2:21.

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PopArchivist
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 4:30pm \| IP Logged

eriejwg wrote:

Rich,

Found a mono file on Qobuz and a 45 dub on YouTube. Speed
corrected and corrected the fade on the Qobuz file and now it
runs 2:21.

I have the 2:21. The database states a second 45 runs 2:42. That is the one I was wondering about if the only mono appearance on CD can be faded to match that 45. Sorry for the confusion. Two 45 commercial pressings!

Edited by PopArchivist on 20 March 2022 at 4:31pm

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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 4:39pm \| IP Logged

Oh, missed that part! I only found the 2:21 45 on the
AnotherProf page on YouTube.

There are stereo listings on Qobuz running 2:38.

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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 4:54pm \| IP Logged

All I can find on YouTube is the stereo 2:38-2:40 versions.

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 6:58pm \| IP Logged

RE: "The Horse"

When discussing the "second 45 that runs 2:42", has anyone confirmed that this second one was originally released in 1968 as Phil L.A. Of Soul 313?

My Phil L.A. Of Soul 313 stock 45 (Monarch pressing) states 2:25, but the actual run time is 2:23. Everything but the highest frequency traces of the horns dumps out rather quickly at 2:21, but those horn traces definitely continue on at a very low level until 2:23.

The second 45 I have states 2:44, but this one is a 1972 mono promo copy of the Jamie 1406 reissue, which runs an actual 2:43. It arrived at my college station during the first week of September that year.

Edited by Yah Shure on 20 March 2022 at 6:59pm

eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 7:20pm \| IP Logged

Interesting, the mono copy I found on Qobuz from The Phil-
LA of Soul Singles Collection 1968-1972 had the horn
traces and runs 2:24 and almost ends cold with some echo on
the end. If you pitch it up it would run 2:23.
Bob Moke's 45 on YouTube runs 2:21. So, it appears the file
on Qobuz running 2:24 matches your 45, John, just runs a bit
slow.

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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 7:26pm \| IP Logged

I'd love to hear your 1968 45 John so I can see if I can
digitally match my Qobuz purchase to your 45.

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John Gallagher
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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 March 2022 at 9:59pm \| IP Logged

Matches up nicely, thanks John!

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