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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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Pat:
Thought I'd bring to your attention that the Top 40 hits "She" and "Come to Me" by Tommy James and the Shondells are listed multiple times in the database. Looks like this is the result of some programming glitch.
Also, I see the overwhelming majority of CD appearances for the hits "Sweet Cherry Wine" and "Crystal Blue Persuasion" contain the comment: (neither the 45 or LP version). Does anyone know where these "neither" versions come from and why they repeatedly show up on CD?
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BillCahill
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Bill Inglot went in and remixed the Tommy James material from the multi tracks. For Sweet Cherry Wine Bill skipped an edit near the end so we now hear part of the recording that was cut out of both the single and album. Same thing for Crystal Blue, he just skipped an edit. FYI the mysterious whispering on Crysal Blue Persuasion was simply Tommy telling the mixer to bring up some instruments.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 at 8:07am | IP Logged
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So for "Crystal Blue Persuasion", the common versions do not simply run longer rather there is a missing edit? Bill, can you point where it is (I don't have an original 45 to compare). thanks.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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I'll ask the same question, and add another one--did the commercial single (or even a promo) have extra percussion over the bassline transition and the sax overdubs in the last verse? I seem to recall the version I heard on radio in the early 70s had neither (I didn't start to hear the horn version until the advent of CDs being used instead of vinyl or carts).
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sriv94
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 3:24pm | IP Logged
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Sorry to bump this one up, but I am rather curious about the 45 version of "Crystal Blue Persuasion" (since none of the CDs appear to have the 45). Is the 45 gettable by making any edits on the CD versions that are commercially available (as I said above, I didn't recall the version I heard on radio in the 70s as having horn overdubs or percussion over the bass solo leading into the final verse)?
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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sriv94 wrote:
| Sorry to bump this one up, but I am rather curious about the 45 version of "Crystal Blue Persuasion" (since none of the CDs appear to have the 45). Is the 45 gettable by making any edits on the CD versions that are commercially available (as I said above, I didn't recall the version I heard on radio in the 70s as having horn overdubs or percussion over the bass solo leading into the final verse)? |
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If the "neither the 45 or LP" versions are the same as the one on Very Best Of then, no, the 45 can't be recreated. The endings are different: The Very Best Of version has an additional repeat of the "crystal blue persuasion" vocal before the ending as well as the aforementioned whispering and some echoed "crystal blue persuasion" vocals in the background that don't appear on the 45.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:57am | IP Logged
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Having never heard the mono 45 (boy, would I like to!), I would suspect that in trying to create a stereo 45 version, they added in the missing horn and percussion overdubs found on the 45, however they left the whispering and the additional repeat of the "crystal blue persuasion" vocal at the end (the latter appearing on the LP version).
Is that it?
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bwolfe
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 6:39am | IP Logged
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There are some mixing differences that I've noticed.
The version on the old Time Life 1969 disc and the version on the Rhino Best of have different mixes.
Before the line "maybe tomorrow.." there's either a bass line or a percusson section.
Which is version is closer to the 45?
I hope I'm not being too vague on this one.
Its something that I've wondered for awhile.
Thanks for revisiting this issue!
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the way it was heard on the radio
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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Just ordered a NM 45 for "Crystal Blue Persuasion." Should be here within a few days, then I'll clean it up in Adobe.
David, will contact you via PM, if you'd like, when mine comes in...
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sriv94
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
Just ordered a NM 45 for "Crystal Blue Persuasion." Should be here within a few days, then I'll clean it up in Adobe.
David, will contact you via PM, if you'd like, when mine comes in... |
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Count me in too. For comparative purposes only. :)
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:42pm | IP Logged
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I would like a copy of this as well. I have it on a Roulette reissue 45 but haven't ever played it to see what might be on it....
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BillCahill
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 7:17pm | IP Logged
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I hadn't seen all of the responses on this one.. now that it's bumped I see lots of questions. The Bill Inglot Multitrack remix that is neither version does have the percussion loop or edit vs. the bass line just like the original 45, and has the extra horns that were added to the 45.
But the LP version was always slightly longer near the end where Tommy sings "Crystal Blue Persuasion, Ahhh Haahh". That repeated twice on the LP version and the newly remixed versions. On the 45 it happens only once. So you could get a stereo 45 version by editing out the first of the two "Crystal Blue Persuasion ahhaaa".. at least I think that's how the edit was made from the original sessions.
But there may be some mix differences on the mono 45 that I'm not aware of, especially at the end that would prevent an exact duplication.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
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My 45 came in today - VG at best...little 'bubbles' in the vinyl. This is the 2nd time in a few months gotten a dud...
Anyways, did some major surgery to it. First, took the intro from a digital version, converted it to mono and pasted it in. Then, some clever EQ'ing and noise removal, an acceptable copy.
Tom Diehl agrees, the last 20 seconds or so of the 45 are different from the stereo versions we've come to know, thus the LP version designation in the database.
Edited by eriejwg on 10 November 2007 at 7:58pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 16 January 2008 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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Revisiting this one, I took a combo of my noisy 45 and the LP version, mixed to mono, to create a much better 45 version. In doing so, it seemed like the instrumental portion on the LP from :06-:20 was mixed differently than the 45. Also, when Tommy sings "Look over yonder" it seems like a different vocal take on the LP vs. 45. His voice sounds a little hoarse on the LP.
Thoughts?
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 16 January 2008 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
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Yeah I've always thought that line sounded re-sung on the 45. Or pitched up. Pat's database has it all correct though, it lists properly the LP version or the "neither LP or 45 version".
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 16 January 2008 at 5:25pm | IP Logged
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This is an update:
Since this string started with the "She" database correction let me add that I just compared the mono DJ 45 on She to CD versions and the stereo CD version is missing the tape echo effect on Tommy's voice on the beginning of the song. I found an old stereo mix on a Scepter LP licensed from Roulette, and that stereo version also has this echo effect on Tommy's voice missing from the Rhino and Pair releases that I've examined.
Edited by Bill Cahill on 16 January 2008 at 9:46pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 03 February 2008 at 2:59pm | IP Logged
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Bill, I just listened to the Tommy James Roulette vinyl LP "Travelin'" and it also has this echo that you mention. None of the cd's in the database contain this echo so it is not just a matter of 45 vs LP version, it deserves the notation "neither the 45 nor LP version" for each cd in the database.
Edited by Pat Downey on 09 May 2010 at 6:50pm
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 16 September 2023 at 8:45am | IP Logged
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The database for Sweet Cherry Wine currently states:
"commercial copies run either (4:14) not (4:25) as stated
on the record label or (4:22) not (3:59) as stated on the
record label"
Apparently there is another label time, 4:09, found on some
copies, as evidenced
here. I do not know
which version it plays, however.
Edited by TomDiehl1 on 16 September 2023 at 8:46am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Tommy James and the Shondells
