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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 20 May 2007 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
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Todd asked a number of Simon & Garfunkel questions back on May 12 and after listening to the 45's and LP's involved, I have updated the database with some new information regarding 45 and LP versions. There is one particularly troublesome comparison and that is with regards to the song Mrs. Robinson. Jim forwarded me an mp3 of this 45 and it runs 4:01 just like the version found on the LP Bookends. But Todd stated in his post that there is a :13 difference between the 45 and LP so is it possible that there are 2 different pressings of this 45? There are some timing differences on various cd's that contain this song with the shortest being found on the soundtrack to "Forrest Gump" (3:50) while most others run (4:01).
As Todd pointed out, I do hear a difference in the mix with the cymbals being audible during the chorus on Bookends while not being audible to my ears on the 45. As it turns out, I hear the cymbals on the short (3:50) version as well as all versions that run (4:01) but I cannot explain this timing difference that Todd mentioned. It sounds to me like all cd's contain the cymbals which would indicate an LP version but the timing differential mentioned by Todd puzzles me so does anyone else have any input on this situation?
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jimct
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| Posted: 20 May 2007 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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Pat, I just noticed that I hadn't previously brought to your attention the fact that my promo 45 of "Mrs. Robinson", with "Old Friends/Bookends" on the flip, has both a listed and actual time of (3:39). This is simply an early fade of the commercial 45. This really doesn't help to clarify your current (3:50) version inquiry, other than to let you know that much of 1968 U.S. Top 40 radio played this early-faded version. I speculate that this fact may lend it to an arbitrary early fade decision by some poorer CD masterers. However, as to the cymbals difference, I can't speak to it.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 9:51pm | IP Logged
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Jim was very kind to supply me his "Mrs. Robinson" vinyl 45 on mp3, which I clocked with a run time of 4:03, and I compared it to the stereo mix on Simon & Garfunkel's Best of CD (Columbia/Legacy 66022). The chorus on the 45 packs far greater punch than on the CD because the bass guitar (which sounds like it's coupled with a kick drum) and vocals are mixed "hotter" on the 45. Also, at the 3:43 mark of the 45, I can faintly hear some sort of odd outer space-like sound effect (I believe it's actually a piano!) that lingers through the song's fade out. The closing moments of the 45 also consists of an extra guitar strum or two. Neither of these instruments and effects are on the stereo mix.
By the way, I also notice at the 3:37 point on the Best of CD, the audio on the left channel very suddenly drops to a practically inaudible level, while the right channel continues to be heard for an additional :24 before completely fading out at 4:01. Does the Bookends LP also fade out this way with only one channel of audio?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 21 May 2007 at 10:45pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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Pat Downey wrote:
Todd asked a number of Simon & Garfunkel questions back on May 12 and after listening to the 45's and LP's involved, I have updated the database with some new information regarding 45 and LP versions. There is one particularly troublesome comparison and that is with regards to the song Mrs. Robinson. Jim forwarded me an mp3 of this 45 and it runs 4:01 just like the version found on the LP Bookends. But Todd stated in his post that there is a :13 difference between the 45 and LP so is it possible that there are 2 different pressings of this 45? There are some timing differences on various cd's that contain this song with the shortest being found on the soundtrack to "Forrest Gump" (3:50) while most others run (4:01).
As Todd pointed out, I do hear a difference in the mix with the cymbals being audible during the chorus on Bookends while not being audible to my ears on the 45. As it turns out, I hear the cymbals on the short (3:50) version as well as all versions that run (4:01) but I cannot explain this timing difference that Todd mentioned. It sounds to me like all cd's contain the cymbals which would indicate an LP version but the timing differential mentioned by Todd puzzles me so does anyone else have any input on this situation?
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Pat:
The Simon & Garfunkel info I posted on May 12 was based on what had been reported on the Both Sides Now message board, and thus was not based on my own observations at the time. As it turns out, the individual who described a :13 difference between the "Mrs. Robinson" 45 and LP actually meant that the 45 begins fading out at a point in the song :13 later than the LP, and did not intend to suggest that the 45 length runs :13 longer. Therefore, unless evidence turns up to the contrary, commercial 45 copies of "Mrs. Robinson" all run 4:03.
As for the 3:50 length that has turned up on CD, could this simply be an early fade of the 45 and LP length?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 21 May 2007 at 10:41pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 10:33pm | IP Logged
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DUPLICATE POST DELETED.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 21 May 2007 at 10:34pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 May 2007 at 5:25am | IP Logged
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I am inclined to believe now that the (3:50) appearance on cd is just an early fade and that there is only one pressing of the 45.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 May 2007 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
Given the differences we've documented between the 45 and LP of "Mrs. Robinson", do you think the database should also incorporate the comment "LP mix" or "LP version" for all stereo versions of the song on CD to date? Seeing how the 45 contains the aforementioned piano chords and guitar strums toward the end of the song that are not on the LP, I'd say yes.
Edited by Todd Ireland on 22 May 2007 at 2:09pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 May 2007 at 6:37pm | IP Logged
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I don't think the mix differences in this particular case warrant an LP version vs 45 version designation. Perhaps an LP mix comment would be appropriate (all cd appearances would qualify for this comment) -- does anyone else have input on this matter?
Edited by Pat Downey on 22 May 2007 at 6:37pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 16 January 2009 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
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Pat:
I wanted to revisit this topic concerning Simon & Garfunkel's "Mrs. Robinson" because I've taken a second opportunity to do an A/B comparison between the commercial mono 45 and the stereo LP as it appears on the duo's Best of CD (Columbia/Legacy 66022). I think we can both agree the cymbals and bass guitar are mixed much hotter on the 45 than on the CD. But to me, the kicker is the strange dischorded piano notes that can be heard throughout the fadeout on the 45 starting at the 3:43 mark. The piano is nowhere to be heard on the CD. Therefore, I'm firmly of the opinion that all stereo CD appearances of "Mrs. Robinson" in the database should contain an "LP version" comment.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 16 January 2009 at 7:29pm | IP Logged
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Your post about the piano notes at the end of the song triggered some memories of mine. As a youth and wannabe radio DJ, lol, I remember hearing the notes you mentioned when stations played the song on the radio.
Nice catch, ordered a 45 tonight. :)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 18 January 2009 at 1:35am | IP Logged
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Yes, I just heard a copy of the 45 after not hearing it in years. Indeed, there is a piano (played out of key) on the fade out. My vote is for "LP version" for existing CDs.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 21 July 2013 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
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i agree with you guys on this one....the piano tinkle is no
where to be heard on the cd version.....good catch!!
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 22 July 2013 at 9:20am | IP Logged
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Do the dischordant piano notes at the end of the song only appear on the mono 45 or also the stereo 45?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 22 July 2013 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| Do the dischordant piano notes at the end of the song only appear on the mono 45 or also the stereo 45? |
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Gordon, there never was a U.S. stereo 45 of "Mrs. Robinson." The Hall Of Fame reissue single featured the same mono mix as the original mono Columbia 45.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Mrs. Robinson - Simon & Garfunkel
