Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Alan Parsons Project

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Topic: Alan Parsons Project - Games People Play

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eriejwg
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Posted: 29 December 2007 at 6:38pm \| IP Logged

After posting the edits for Maynard Ferguson---which I should have done WITH stock copy and not on my own, sorry :(---hopefully, I can redeem myself with the edits required to get the 45 version of this song.

Got a VG stock copy of the 45 in today for editing purposes. Listed is 3:17; actual time is 3:18.

To edit the LP version down to 45 version:

Keep 00:00-1:57.357
Remove 1:57.357-2:40.692
Keep 2:40.692 to 3:22.488
Remove 3:22.488-3:36.872
Keep 3:36.872 to the end of the LP version (4:18 or so)

Resulting edit runs 3:18.

Edited by eriejwg on 29 December 2007 at 6:42pm

NightAire
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Posted: 28 March 2010 at 11:51pm \| IP Logged

This really helped... thanks for the edit points!!!

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Roscoe
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 1:47pm \| IP Logged

For some reason, I recall having to do a cross-fade with one of the edits when I made my 45 recreation many years ago. Unfortunately, I don't have my notes anymore, but I seem to remember that the cross-fade was during the instrumental section.

Based on the above notes, it sounds like you were able to recreate it with straight edits. Did you notice anything that sounds like a cross-fade on the 45? Or maybe I was just being too anal in trying to get the edit to sound smooth.

NightAire
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 2:45pm \| IP Logged

Seems like there was one note left over from a chopped out instrumental that lingered into the edit, but upon listening to it, I realized that (I think) that leftover note was on the original 45, too.

In effect, you end up with the instrument (a horn?) playing a one note solo! It just punctuates the downbeat.

Every so often, editing these songs, I notice things I'd never noticed before! :)

Somebody with the 45 would have to say for sure, but my edit (according to Eriejwg's instructions above) sounded clean & right to my ears.

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Roscoe
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 7:38pm \| IP Logged

eriejwg wrote:

I dug out my old needledrop to revisit this edit and am still confused. The tricky edit (the one that I used a cross-fade on) is the first one on your list. However, if I use the edit at 1:57 noted above, it doesn't match the 45.

On my 45, the edit occurs around the 1:58 mark as follows:
- There is a prominent synth/string hit at about 1:58 (it is preceded by 4 drum beats during the instrumental passage that starts at 1:50). This instrumentation is the same on both the LP and 45 and occurs before any edit.
- On the 45, the next downbeat occurs .5 seconds after the above noted string hit. However, this downbeat appears at 2:42 on the LP. Obviously, there was an edit here.
- However, if you just perform a straight edit to get to the downbeat at 2:42 (i.e. edit from about 1:58.7 to 2:42), the cut is jarring and does not sound like the 45.
- The only way I could get a smooth edit to match the 45 was to cross-fade.

Whew, that was a mouthful. I just remember this one because it was one of the trickier edits I had run across.

Cross-fade edits are pretty uncommon but occasionally you find one (e.g. "Let's Go Crazy").

I was using the Definitive Collection CD as my source, which is the only CD I own with this song; it's possible that another CD might yield a different result in the event that the Definitive Collection uses a different mix.

Maybe someone else that has recreated this 45 can chime in.

sriv94
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 7:49pm \| IP Logged

I could certainly be wrong, but I seem to recall being able to create the edit at (1:57ish) without a cross-fade (doesn't mean it's right :) ).

Although using cross-fades for edits isn't unusual for the Alan Parsons Project. The 45 of "Psychobabble" (follow-up single to "Eye In The Sky") also uses a couple.

Edited by sriv94 on 29 March 2010 at 7:50pm

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NightAire
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 7:56pm \| IP Logged

OK, for mine I edited on the "and" of the "4" beat, so it actually hits at 1:56 on my trimmed edit.

In effect, you're joining like this:

1&, 2&, 3&, 4 ]--[ &, 1&, 2&, 3&, 4&...

The synth strike isn't as strong at 2:42 as it is at 1:58 because of all the other instrumentation at 2:42, but it's still there... I'm not sure what's missing?

Since I know the edit is there, it sounds a little "busy" for the half a beat before things hit on the downbeat, perhaps that's what you felt needed a crossfade?

I'd be happy to provide a copy of my edit, if you'd like to compare to the 45; I'd rather get it right myself than be airing what would be labeled in the database as a "failed attempt to recreate the single edit." :-(

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eriejwg
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Posted: 29 March 2010 at 9:35pm \| IP Logged

Considering I did this edit back in 2007, and didn't keep the 45 because of its poor condition, I may have to revisit this reconstruction again. :)

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 23 January 2014 at 9:02pm \| IP Logged

I now appreciate the difficulty in making the first edit. I think it's possible without a cross-fade, but the edit is in a weird position between beats and before a downbeat.

The only versions on CD that I know of are the LP version.

I think the first CD to feature the LP version was Arista's Perfect 10 (1984), where it sounds quite nice.

The same analog transfer is used for Priority's Seventies Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 6 FM Hits (1991), where it's mastered way too loud and clips severely.

The same analog transfer is also used for Priority's Rock Of The '80s Vol. 12 (1994), where it's still too loud and clips, but not as bad as the '70s disc. Well, Priority, which is it - '70s or '80s?

Finally, Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 22 1980-1983 (1997) is digitally exactly 0.2 dB quieter than Arista's Perfect 10, and also sounds quite nice. Time-Life has the answer - it's '80s.

swaitek's promo 50-CD The A List Disc 9 (1994) has noise reduction - avoid.

At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to post my editing instructions using the timings of Arista's Perfect 10.

Segement 1:
Extends from 0:00 to 1:58.3 of both the LP version and 45 edit.
This segment ends between beats. The edit point is about 3/4 of the way to a downbeat that would fall at 1:58.4. Not a satisfying instruction, I know, but I really can't do much better than the description earlier in the thread.

Remove the (slightly more than) 96 beats from 1:58.3 to 2:41.7 of the LP version.

Segment 2:
Extends from 2:41.7 to 3:23.5 of the LP version.
Extends from 1:58.3 to 2:37.6 of the 45 edit.
This segment ends on what would be a snare that starts a short drum fill.

Remove the 32 beats from 3:23.5 to 3:37.9 of the LP version.

Segment 3:
Extends from 3:37.9 to 4:21.9 (end) of the LP version.
Extends from 2:40.2 to 3:24.1 of the 45 edit.

Your mixdown will run about 3:21, with edits at 1:58.3 and 2:40.2.

(I should point out that there's about a second of silence at the beginning of Arista's Perfect 10 - I left the timings as they appear on the CD.)

Edited by crapfromthepast on 23 January 2014 at 9:06pm

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