Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Chic-"I Want Your Love"

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jimct
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Posted: 30 May 2008 at 3:20pm \| IP Logged

My commercial 45, confirmed as Atlantic 3557, has a listed time of (3:28), but an actual time of (3:23). All 9 of the current database CDs for this song that specify "45 version" state a run time of either (3:28) or (3:29), so we will need to compare the actual 45 vs. these CDs, to get to the actual truth here.

Pat Downey
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Posted: 02 June 2008 at 8:42pm \| IP Logged

Jim, I time my 45 at (3:24), a dj copy, and have found that all cd's that feature the 45 version run much slower than the 45.

edtop40
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Posted: 12 July 2010 at 9:23pm \| IP Logged

my commercial 45 issued as atlantic 3557 states a run time of 3:28 but only runs 3:21 and NOT 3:24 as other have stated........the run out groove info is "st-a-36512-5 105608".....there may possibly be 2 pressings....john did an excellent job of matching the speed for me......thx john...

Edited by edtop40 on 15 July 2010 at 7:07am

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KentT
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Posted: 14 July 2010 at 12:02pm \| IP Logged

Edtop40,

My commercial 45 also runs 3:21. Will check my deadwax and post it. Update, my copy has the same deadwax as yours does.

Edited by KentT on 14 July 2010 at 7:29pm

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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 30 January 2014 at 5:00pm \| IP Logged

I am using Rock On 1979 as my source for this track. It times out at 3:29 and runs much slower than the 45, as mentioned in the database. I'd like to pitch it up to the correct speed, but as there appears to be multiple pressings (and lengths) of the original 45, I'm not sure if my resulting file should run 3:21, 3:23 or 3:24. Can anyone help me with this please, either by letting me know the correct speed adjustment percentage, or by sending me a reference copy to match mine against.

Thanks in advance.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 31 January 2014 at 9:12am \| IP Logged

The version on Rhino's Disco Years Vol. 2 (1990) runs slow. I don't have a 45 to compare, though, so I'm not sure how slow.

These discs use the same analog transfer as Disco Years, and also run slow:

Rhino's cheapie Disco Hits Vol. 4 (1994; digitally identical to Disco Years)
Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 36 More AM Nuggets (1994)
Madacy's Rock On 1979 (1996; digitally exactly 0.3 dB quieter than Time-Life disc)
Simitar's Number Ones Soul On Fire (1999; digitally identical to Disco Years)

Edited by crapfromthepast on 31 January 2014 at 9:14am

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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 31 January 2014 at 3:57pm \| IP Logged

Hi crapfromthepast and thanks for the info.

I don't have a 45 to compare it to either. I am hoping that someone will be kind enough to send me a reference copy of the correctly pitched CD version or the original 45. Then I can adjust my copy to match it.

I'd really like to have this track in my library running at the correct speed.

jimct
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Posted: 31 January 2014 at 6:48pm \| IP Logged

Bwci Bo, I think we all understand exactly what it is you are asking here.
The problem is that the answer you seek is not cut and dried.

In many previous instances, we have found actual stock 45s with minor,
actual time differences. Usually, all these different reported timings are
exactly correct, as those of us who commonly do such timings/report our
findings are big sticklers for accuracy.

This situation usually happens for one of two reasons: Stock 45s were
manufactured at different pressing plants, using master 45 stampers that
were prepared slightly differently. Each stamper can only produce so
many copies, before they must be replaced. (Our own YahShure might
have more specifics on this, as he is quite familiar with pressing plant
particulars.) Quite often, different staff audio technicians would prepare
"master stamper #2", etc. Such minor speed/fade differences become
apparent in cases like this. Because no two people complete a task exactly
the same way.

When I want to determine a "tie-breaker" in cases like this, I will usually
take the actual timing of the promo 45. Because those were almost always
the first 45 copies made. (Unless the song was a huge hit, and the label
needed to make some additional, "DJ re-service" promo copies.)

So, since Pat's timing was from the DJ copy, my decision would be to use
his (3:24) timing. But it can also be a matter of personal taste. After all,
you're the one that's gonna be listening to the song. All three of these
timings are both legitimate and official. They were all made in 1979. And
none were bootleg copies. Use the timing that your own ear likes best.
Hope this helps.....

Edited by jimct on 01 February 2014 at 12:35am

Bwci Bo
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Posted: 31 January 2014 at 9:00pm \| IP Logged

jimct: That does help, so thank you very much for your interesting response and the valid points you raised.

I have a file to work with now and it sounds right to my ears so I'll run with it.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 01 February 2014 at 8:38pm \| IP Logged

Edit: I now doubt that the 45 version CDs that I noted
above run slow.

They're the same tempo as the LP versions.

It's more likely that they're faded at different points
than the 45.

I know that for "Le Freak", Bill Inglot re-edited the 45
version from very low-generation source tapes, and
instead of fading where the 45 fades, he let it run to
the end of the LP version.

For the Atlantic CDs that include the 45 edit of "Le
Freak", the edits were correct but the fade points were
way off from the actual 45.

I suspect that for "I Want Your Love", the fade points on
the Rhino CD are in different places than on the true 45.
Speed/pitch is most likely the same, unless the true 45
is sped up or slowed down from the LP version.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 02 February 2014 at 12:10am \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

I know that for "Le Freak", Bill Inglot re-edited the 45
version from very low-generation source tapes, and
instead of fading where the 45 fades, he let it run to
the end of the LP version.

Not so. Inglot faded the LP version early on his CDs. I
have the LP version on both CD and vinyl, and it runs the
longest.

Quote:

For the Atlantic CDs that include the 45 edit of
"Le
Freak", the edits were correct but the fade points were
way off from the actual 45.

I timed my 45 at 3:32.

I suspect that for "I Want Your Love", the fade points on
the Rhino CD are in different places than on the true 45.
Speed/pitch is most likely the same, unless the true 45
is sped up or slowed down from the LP version.[/QUOTE]

I do have the 45, but I just have to dig it out. It's in
a big box of 'em buried in a closet. I do remember once
synching that 45 (that came in a picture sleeve) with the
album version on CD, and, although the 45 seemed to run
faster, it didn't, and it stared to fade almost right
after an edit point.

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Brian W.
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Posted: 02 February 2014 at 4:46am \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

Edit: I now doubt that the 45 version CDs that I noted
above run slow.

They're the same tempo as the LP versions.

It's more likely that they're faded at different points
than the 45.

I know that for "Le Freak", Bill Inglot re-edited the 45 version from very low-generation source tapes, and
instead of fading where the 45 fades, he let it run to
the end of the LP version.

For the Atlantic CDs that include the 45 edit of "Le
Freak", the edits were correct but the fade points were
way off from the actual 45.

I suspect that for "I Want Your Love", the fade points on the Rhino CD are in different places than on the true 45. Speed/pitch is most likely the same, unless the true 45 is sped up or slowed down from the LP version.

Sounds like someone who is insanely meticulous about recreating fades needs to tackle these...

Hykker
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Posted: 02 February 2014 at 3:14pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

When I want to determine a "tie-breaker" in cases like
this, I will usually
take the actual timing of the promo 45. Because those
were almost always
the first 45 copies made.

Of course, that's not always definitive either, since
some labels (Atlantic being one of them) pressed promos
at multiple plants too...west coast ones, for example
were Monarch pressings (often on styrene), while east
coast ones were on vinyl. So we could see the same
timing differences between promos as well.

jimct
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Posted: 02 February 2014 at 9:02pm \| IP Logged

To each his own, Steve. Like I said to start my post, there is no cut and dried
answer. Sure, promo 45s can emanate from more than one pressing plant.
And slight timing differences can surely appear, as a result. I just happen to
default to that. Flawed or otherwise. I'm not saying I'm right, that it's a
foolproof solution, or that anyone else should necessarily do the same.

Ultimately, I recommended Bwci Bo use his own ear, among the various
officially submitted timings. Which clearly goes against what I do
personally......

Edited by jimct on 02 February 2014 at 9:41pm

Yah Shure
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Posted: 02 February 2014 at 10:37pm \| IP Logged

Hykker wrote:

Of course, that's not always definitive either, since some labels (Atlantic being one of them) pressed promos at multiple plants too...west coast ones, for example were Monarch pressings (often on styrene), while east coast ones were on vinyl. So we could see the same timing differences between promos as well.

Steve, in my experience, Atlantic was one label that almost always sent cuttings done at one mastering facility (usually Atlantic Studios) to all of its contracted U.S. plants, rather than tape copies. In a few cases, metal parts utilized at different plants were sourced from the very same mother (i.e., identically-matched deadwax matrix numbers and suffixes and groove pattern characteristics showing up on, say, both Monarch and Specialty pressings of a given 45. Monarch and Specialty would, of course, add their own logo imprints to the deadwax.)

In many cases, the Atlantic Studios lacquers were sent to Long Wear (the "LW" often seen in the deadwax), which made the metal parts and then sent them to each pressing plant. If anything, this tended to standardize Atlantic product on a national scale, rather than open up the possibility of mastering anomalies between the various plants.

Edited by Yah Shure on 02 February 2014 at 10:38pm

The Hits Man
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Posted: 03 February 2014 at 1:34pm \| IP Logged

I cannot find my copy of "I Want Your Love" right now, but
I remember the comparison I made. I am comfortable that
my 45 matches up with the 45 version on CD.

I can put my hands on my 45 of "Le Freak" and give you the
deadwax number. It was pressed on vinyl (off center, I
might add: ST - A - 35737 - 1 It was pressed at the
Specialty Records Corp., Olyphant, PA.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 13 February 2014 at 9:08pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

My commercial 45, confirmed as Atlantic
3557, has a listed time of (3:28), but an actual time of
(3:23). All 9 of the current database CDs for this song
that specify "45 version" state a run time of either
(3:28) or (3:29), so we will need to compare the actual 45
vs. these CDs, to get to the actual truth here.

I found my 45. Yup. It times out at precisely 3:23. I
guess my turntable was off when I checked years before.

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Ringmaster_D
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Posted: 22 April 2018 at 5:59pm \| IP Logged

Did anyone ever get around to comparing the "slow" 45
versions with an actual 45 to determine if we truly have
a speed issue or perhaps different fade points?

The Hits Man
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Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:33am \| IP Logged

It's been years, but I finally dug out my pristine 1978
Atlantic 45 and found that it was sped up a bit.

What I think happened is that after Atlantic edited the
album mix, they sped it up a bit for the 45. Everyone in
the CD age has used the edit, but not the sped up edit.

What could also have happened is that the edited master
was sped up during the disc-cutting process, and that's
why the actual sped-up single edit never made it to
digital.

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eriejwg
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Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:01pm \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

Edit: I now doubt that the 45
version CDs that I noted
above run slow.

They're the same tempo as the LP versions.

It's more likely that they're faded at different points
than the 45.

I just found this video on YouTube from a vinyl greatest
hits and it appears to run 3:29.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3xLFc2fky0

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