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Fetta
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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Does anyone know the difference between the 45 and LP version of "America"? At one time I thought that the 45 didn't have the "strings" instrumental in the beginning but I was recently told that the 45 does include that intro.
Thanks
-Fetta
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jimct
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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Fetta, whomever told you recently that the 45 DOES have the string instrumental intro is 100% incorrect. The 45 removes it, and has only about a :10 guitar/drum intro. Just the smallest bit of strings still exist inside there, in the last few seconds before Neil's vocal begins, so your memory was right all along!
Edited by jimct on 14 January 2009 at 10:39am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged
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Also, the 45 cannot be created from the LP, due to those mix differences on the intro.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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Neil Diamond has several songs where the 45 version cannot be recreated or are a totally different mix, if I recall. "America", "Cherry Cherry" (Hot August Night version), "Shilo", "Be" etc.
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Fetta
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
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Thanks everyone....
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Hykker
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
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Been a while since I compared them, but I think the "todayyyy" ending is sustained a bit longer on the LP version.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
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I was able to create a 45 version of "America" using just the intro from vinyl; however, Hykker, you're right that the 45 fades out earlier than the LP.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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True, with a vinyl/digital combo, it's amazing the editing possibilities. :)
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| I was able to create a 45 version of "America" using just the intro from vinyl; however, Hykker, you're right that the 45 fades out earlier than the LP. |
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I did the same thing. Luckily, this was one of those cases where the 45 was sonically very close to the CD so the transition was not perceptible.
I have had other cases where I tried this and the sonic differences were too jarring. "Against The Wind" and the "Stars On 45 III" medley come to mind...I only needed a few seconds from the 45, but the difference in sources was just too noticeable.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 7:40pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| True, with a vinyl/digital combo, it's amazing the editing possibilities. :) |
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One of the first ones I did back in 1996 was Neil Diamond's "Skybird".
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 14 January 2009 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| I was able to create a 45 version of "America" using just the intro from vinyl; however, Hykker, you're right that the 45 fades out earlier than the LP. |
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Can I hear the different intro Aaron? I thought the single was just an LP edit, and faded off after about a second following the second-last "Today"? And I thought it was just trimmed off at the beginning where the guitar kicks in after the strings.
I'm at jgthornton@gmail.com. Low-fi will do the trick.
I always thought it was because of on-air processing that the single sounded different on the radio, but I guess the single was mixed differently.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 15 January 2009 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
| I have had other cases where I tried this and the sonic differences were too jarring. "Against The Wind" and the "Stars On 45 III" medley come to mind...I only needed a few seconds from the 45, but the difference in sources was just too noticeable. |
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A lot of it depends on the stylus you're using, condition of the record, and how good you are at using the "EQ" settings of your program. I was able to do both "Against The Wind" and "Stars On 45 III" using the same methods you tried.
Thankfully, the Bob Seger song was also very sonically close using my AT440MLa (cartridge/stylus), so it required very little additional tweaking. "Stars On 45 III" was a real nightmare. You're right about the CD source (long version) and 45 having totally different sounds to them. I had to spend a considerable amount of time getting the 45's EQ to match the CD, just for those few seconds of audio.
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Jody Thornton
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| Posted: 07 May 2009 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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Jody Thornton wrote:
aaronk wrote:
| I was able to create a 45 version of "America" using just the intro from vinyl; however, Hykker, you're right that the 45 fades out earlier than the LP. |
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Can I hear the different intro Aaron? I thought the single was just an LP edit, and faded off after about a second following the second-last "Today"? And I thought it was just trimmed off at the beginning where the guitar kicks in after the strings.
I'm at jgthornton@gmail.com. Low-fi will do the trick.
I always thought it was because of on-air processing that the single sounded different on the radio, but I guess the single was mixed differently.
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Just wondered if someone could clarify this one.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 27 March 2010 at 11:58pm | IP Logged
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So, has the 45 mix ever been released digitally in ANY form (CD, iTunes, Amazon mp3, etc.)?
This has now hung me up working my way down two charts: I can't get the 45 version of Herb Alpert's Diamonds from 1987, & now I can't get the 45 version of Neil Diamond's America from 1981. :-(
Can someone point me to a digital source?
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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NightAire wrote:
So, has the 45 mix ever been released digitally in ANY form (CD, iTunes, Amazon mp3, etc.)?
This has now hung me up working my way down two charts: I can't get the 45 version of Herb Alpert's Diamonds from 1987, & now I can't get the 45 version of Neil Diamond's America from 1981. :-(
Can someone point me to a digital source? |
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AFAIK, the 45 version of "America" is still MIA on CD or digital download.
The 45 version of "Diamonds" is the same as the LP, or are you referring the the dj edit?
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NightAire
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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Roscoe,
My apologies; yes, the DJ edit of Diamonds. You are correct, the commercial 45 was the album version.
That's crazy about the 45 version of America being unavailable... especially as many greatest hits compilations as he's put out! You'd think ONE of them would have it...
...Obviously, you'd be wrong...
Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open on eBay for a clean 45, or see if the edit is on some 12" somewhere (although Discogs doesn't list one).
Edited by NightAire on 28 March 2010 at 9:35am
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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NightAire wrote:
Roscoe,
My apologies; yes, the DJ edit of Diamonds. You are correct, the commercial 45 was the album version.
That's crazy about the 45 version of America being unavailable... especially as many greatest hits compilations as he's put out! You'd think ONE of them would have it...
...Obviously, you'd be wrong...
Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open on eBay for a clean 45, or see if the edit is on some 12" somewhere (although Discogs doesn't list one). |
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I agree it's a bummer that they haven't bothered to issue the 45 version of "America" on CD, but if you have audio editing software it's fairly easy to recreate by splicing a needledrop of the 45 intro onto the LP version. I created mine using the version from either the 12 Greatest Hits Vol. 2 CD or GH 1966-1992 (can't remember which). I use Adobe Audition as my wav file editor.
In any event, the result was seamless.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 2:00pm | IP Logged
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That's what I ended up doing as well for "America", the vinyl/digital combination.
The live 45 version of "Cherry Cherry" I don't believe has made it to CD.
Plus, the correct 45 ending of "Be" I believe is AWOL as well.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 7:53pm | IP Logged
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Until I get the vinyl, I've done the only thing I know to do: chopped everything before the downbeat at 46 seconds in... I assume the strings aren't there in the 45 mix?
That gives me a file length of 3:32, which is close to Discog's stated label length of 3:27. The intro is now 14 & 3/4 seconds, with 7 sec of intro to the chimes.
The ending doesn't sound quite right to me, like maybe it faded on the 45, but until I have the actual cut to work from as a reference, I'm not going to do any more hacking.
Could someone describe the differences between the LP & 7" mix, and the exact length of the 7" mix?
Edited by NightAire on 28 March 2010 at 7:55pm
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Gene Savage
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aaronk
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| Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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Other than the intro, there are no other mix differences. If my memory
is correct, there are no other edits, either. It definitely fades earlier,
though.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: America - Neil Diamond
