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jimct
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| Posted: 20 May 2009 at 6:36am | IP Logged
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Although only a #43 BB hit in 1984, the song was/a big personal fave. I had a 12" single version I played an awful lot back in the day. I remember some guy's voice saying several times, and then again at the very end, "This is the last voice you will ever hear...don't be alarmed." I have misplaced my 12" single. I badly want to put that version on my iPod, and I have been trying to buy it on CD. I have listened to numerous, brief "Two Tribes" audio samples on Amazon.com. It also appears to me that "done-years-later" remixes were done for this song, which was an enormous 80's UK hit. I have also been unable so far to determine if the original "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" LP version may have been the same one that appeared on my original 12" vinyl. Any Holly Johnson experts on the Board? Any guidance as to where I might be able to purchase the original 12" version of "Two Tribes" on a CD would be very much appreciated - thanks!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 20 May 2009 at 3:28pm | IP Logged
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The original US 12" lists the following tracks:
A Two Tribes (Annihilation) (7:55)
B1 War (Hide Yourself!) (4:13)
B2 Two Tribes (Surrender) (3:42)
B3 One February Friday (1:11)
Worldwide, there were at least two other 12" mixes released around the same time. One of the UK 12" singles has a version called "Carnage" with a running time of (7:57). I believe this is the "long" version that has shown up a few times on CD---not the "Annihilation" mix you are looking for, Jim.
The other common 12" mix I've seen, also on CD, is the "Lovers and Haters" version (sometimes referred to as the "Annihilation" mix). This mix is used on the 2005 release of the full-length US CD for Welcome To The Pleasuredome. This mix has a printed time of (9:10), and I've read that it is similar to the "Annihilation" mix, but has a different ending.
So, I've either helped you out, Jim, or made things even more confusing!
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jimct
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| Posted: 21 May 2009 at 3:04am | IP Logged
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Thanks a million, Aaron! Now that you've been able to post the original 12" contents, it is most definitely that original "Annihilation" mix that I will need to locate on a CD.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 21 May 2009 at 7:13am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| I have also been unable so far to determine if the original "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" LP version may have been the same one that appeared on my original 12" vinyl. |
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FWIW, I have an original 1984 Japan-for-U.S. pressing of the song's parent album on CD, "Welcome to the Pleasuredome", on Island 90232 (through Atco/WEA, of course). Even the front & back inserts read "Printed in Japan", and it's still in the original smooth case, so there's no question this is the first CD pressing, released just weeks (or maybe a few months, at most), after the vinyl LP and cassette versions...
"Two Tribes" runs (9:06) on this original pressing, and the full title is given as "Two Tribes (for the victims of ravishment)", on both the inserts & the disc itself. While it does include many spoken lines, this version does NOT include the ones you noted above, where he says, "Mine is the last voice that you will ever hear...do not be alarmed." (Note correct wording.) HOWEVER, after two seconds of silence, the song is followed by a coda on the CD, titled "including the last voice", which runs (1:11). That portion DOES include the lines you remember, and they're heard twice. So it doesn't appear that the original LP & 12" versions were the same...
BTW, I always liked this song as well, but this is one of those rare examples where I don't particularly care for the extended album version. I'm actually used to hearing the video version more than anything else, which I assume was identical (or very close, anyway) to the 45 version. I'm not familiar w/ the original 12" version, though - hopefully it was an improvement over the LP version, anyway...
Curiously, checking my 10th edition of Pat's book, I see that his listings for the group's other hit, "Relax", do NOT include this original Atco/WEA CD version of "Welcome to the Pleasuredome" on Island 90232 (which matches the no. on the original vinyl LP and cassette, BTW). The only two listings he gives for the album are for the subsequent re-issues on Island 824 052 (through PolyGram), and ZTT/Universal 53199, so I'll assume the original isn't in the on-line database, either. The full title of the song is given as "Relax (come fighting)", and to my ears, it sounds like the actual running time is (3:54), as opposed to (3:55) on both the PolyGram and Universal re-issues...
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NightAire
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| Posted: 23 November 2011 at 11:42pm | IP Logged
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I'm trying to sort out the "hit" version of this song; that is to say, the version played most on U.S. radio stations.
Discogs lists possible single lengths as:
3:42 -- B-side of 12"
3:20 -- 7" (allegedly the album version, & allegedly
different from the UK & Canadian 7" mixes.)
The difficultly with the "LP version" being the U.S. 7" version is that the album version looks like it varies wildly depending on the version of the LP!
I found it listed as 9:07 on a number of the album releases in Discogs, while others listed it as 3:20, 3:23, or even 3:28. (All U.S releases.)
To further complicate things, the version on "BANG!... THE GREATEST HITS OF FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD" (1994, Atlantic; 82587-2) is 3:56. (???)
There is a 4:11 mix that I believe matches the 7" Canadian single; it also appears on SOME British 7" releases, but the UK release is also listed as 3:56 on 7".
Anybody know for sure what version was released on the 7" in the United States, and which version was serviced to / played on the radio in the United States? If it's the 3:20 version, where can I find it on CD?
As always, thanks for your help!!!
__________________
Gene Savage
http://www.BlackLightRadio.com
http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage
Owasso, Oklahoma USA
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 25 November 2011 at 10:23am | IP Logged
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My US stock 45 has a listed version of 3:20...
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jimct
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| Posted: 20 September 2014 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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I have *finally* located the version I remembered well, loved, and once had
on a 12" single. It is known as the "Carnage" mix, and turns out to be just
one of its numerous, originally released 1984 mixes. I finally found/heard it
on YouTube, as an unidentified track embedded inside a posted FGTH
cassette dub. I soon after determined its specific version name, and then
located another 12" vinyl copy, for 5 bucks. :)
My main mis-step was assuming that this version would've turned up
somewhere in the world on a FGTH CD over the past 20 years - it hasn't.
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 21 September 2014 at 5:18am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
I have *finally* located the version I remembered well, loved, and once had
on a 12" single. It is known as the "Carnage" mix, and turns out to be just
one of its numerous, originally released 1984 mixes...
My main mis-step was assuming that this version would've turned up
somewhere in the world on a FGTH CD over the past 20 years - it hasn't. |
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Did you research that??? Actually, the "Carnage Mix" of FGTH's "Two Tribes" has appeared on two U.S. CDs to date: For starters, it's included on the group's 1994 compilation/remix album, Reload! Frankie: The Whole 12 Inches, on ZTT/Universal 53198 (printed time: 7:55). (And Pat actually has this CD in the database already, as it also includes three versions/mixes of their top 40 hit, "Relax".) Page on Discogs: Reload! Frankie: The Whole 12 Inches (U.S. CD) It was also featured on the soundtrack (O.S.T.) to the 2008 film, Doomsday, on Lakeshore Records 33991 (printed time: 7:56). I don't have either of those CDs myself, but is that not the same long-lost version/mix that you just finally obtained again on vinyl???
The "Carnage Mix" can also be had on a recent U.K. import from 2012, the 2-CD set by FGTH titled Sex Mix (Archive Tapes and Studio Adventures, Volume One), on ZTT/Salvo (printed time: 7:54), also a remix collection. And lastly, it also appeared in the U.K. on the 2-CD V/A compilation from 1998, Relax! The Ultimate 80's Mix, on PolyGram TV, where it clocks in at 7:54. I actually have that last collection, but it's packed away at the moment... :-)
Oh, and attn: Pat. I see that the original Atco/WEA pressing of FGTH's 1984 album, Welcome to the Pleasuredome, on Island 90232, was never added to the on-line database. As I mentioned in my original post from 21 May 2009 above, it features their top 40 hit, "Relax", w/ an actual time of (3:54)...
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jimct
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| Posted: 21 September 2014 at 7:44am | IP Logged
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Gregg, I obviously did do an Amazon search for "Frankie Goes To
Hollywood Two Tribes Carnage CD" (without the quotes) and got a "did
not match any products" reply from them. Instead, 6 other sources were
provided. The "Reload" source you speak of came back wrongly shown as
a digital download only, not as a CD, for some reason. I expected far more
accuracy from Amazon, since bad search results negatively impact sales.
I also did see earlier the "Sex Mix" CD comp during a Google search, but
the reply I selected 1) failed to mention that it was a 2-CD set, and 2)
truncated the track listings after Track 20 (of course, the Carnage Mix was
Track 21!)
Your second set of eyes is very much appreciated. Researching old 12-
inch singles with multiple original mixes is absolutely outside my primary
45/promo CD single research comfort zone.
Edited by jimct on 21 September 2014 at 7:45am
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 22 September 2014 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| Researching old 12-inch singles with multiple original mixes is absolutely outside my primary 45/promo CD single research comfort zone. |
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Honestly, I didn't use any type of "secret formula" while looking into this one for you, Jim. :-) The key was that you now knew the proper name of the version/mix of "Two Tribes" that you were looking for, so I simply used it, just as you did on Amazon. While I've always felt that both "Relax" and "Two Tribes" were great tunes, I can't say I've ever been a huge fan of FGTH beyond those two songs, and that includes delving into the many mixes that were made for those hits. That was why I didn't make the connection that it was the "Carnage Mix" you were seeking back when you first started this thread in '09 - although based on the spoken lines you quoted then, the name of the mix certainly makes sense now, lol...
However, I DO seriously collect all of the early stuff by FGTH's fellow ZTT/Island labelmates of the time, the Art of Noise - "Beat Box" (1984), "Close (to the Edit)" (1984), and "Legs" (1986) will always be '80s classics in my book, even if they all did only manage to "Bubble Under" on the pop chart, at best. (The video for "Close [to the Edit]" is also one of the best ever made, if you've never seen it. Here it is, on YouTube: ART OF NOISE - "Close (to the Edit)") And like w/ FGTH, producer Trevor Horn & the label made/released PLENTY of mixes for AoN's hits as well; hence there are numerous AoN remix collections out there - especially imports - and I've got quite a few of them. (Yeah, keeping all of the AoN remixes straight is exhausting as well!) So w/ that in mind, your statement about the "Carnage Mix" of "Two Tribes" not existing on CD "anywhere in the world" definitely raised a red flag w/ me. I know you've said here in the past that you enjoy/collect more than just top 40 hits, and I'm definitely right there w/ you on that one, especially when it comes to the '70s & '80s - which is why I certainly don't mind when folks bring up songs like "Two Tribes" here on Pat's chat board... :-)
Quote:
| The "Reload" source you speak of came back wrongly shown as a digital download only, not as a CD, for some reason. I expected far more accuracy from Amazon, since bad search results negatively impact sales. |
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IMO, Amazon's search engine is the WORST, and has been for at least a decade now! Unfortunately, the physical CD of Reload! is now out-of-print (after all, it's a full 20 years old) - and not just here in the U.S., but apparently everywhere. Therefore, the actual CD is available through Amazon only from third-party sellers - but hey, you can still buy the album in MP3 form DIRECTLY from Amazon, so why wouldn't they steer you there first??? :-) And besides, who wants bulky physical music formats anymore - downloads are the FUTURE!!! (Yes, I'm being sarcastic here.) Trust me, a big machine like Amazon isn't hurting from the loss of just a few fans of physical music formats, like us - they could care less! :-( I've also always hated how they use their own system of codes ("ASIN") to identify CDs, vs. giving the catalog nos./UPCs assigned by the record labels. It makes it much more difficult to compare and/or track down those same titles from other sources, especially when they don't even supply any pictures of the front & back cover art (as is often the case w/ rarer & more obscure titles)! So for those reasons, I've been finding myself turning to Amazon less and less over the last ten years. (About the only redeeming quality of their listings for me anymore is the customer reviews of the CDs themselves...)
The Doomsday soundtrack is still in print, although Amazon currently shows that one as "temporarily out of stock" (heh). Amazon's listing doesn't even specify that the version of "Two Tribes" is the "Carnage Mix" on there, which would explain why that one didn't even appear in the results when you did your search - but I verified through multiple other sources that it is indeed the "Carnage Mix" (and the timing given on Amazon matches). However, I could understand why you probably wouldn't want that particular CD as your source, as there's only one other music track on the album, which is "Dog Eat Dog" by Adam & the Ants - the rest is just excerpts from the movie...
Oh, and I should mention one caveat, should you decide to go w/ the out-of-print 2-CD set, Relax! The Ultimate 80's Mix, from the U.K.: The collection was actually re-issued in 2001 w/ the same title & cover art, but w/ a change in the track listing and catalog no., and that later version DOESN'T include the "Carnage Mix" of "Two Tribes"! So make sure the one you get is the original from 1998, on PolyGram TV 565 285-2. Here's one currently listed on eBay: V/A - "Relax! The Ultimate 80's Mix" (original 1998 edition). Hope this helps...
Edited by 80smusicfreak on 22 September 2014 at 7:54am
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Frankie Goes To Hollywood-"Two Tribes"
