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Roscoe
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 7:28pm | IP Logged
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There's a thread currently active on the BSN forum regarding a recent CD reissue of the "Foul Play" by an obscure label called Intrada. This CD apparently contains the stereo version of "Ready To Take A Chance Again" as well as what is suspected to be the short 45 version of "Copacabana".
One of the members posted a sample of both songs, which raises the following questions with regard to "Ready To Take A Chance Again":
- There is a clear mix difference between the stereo version on this clip and the commonly available mono version, mainly a prominent harp at :25 on the mono version that is absent on the stereo clip. Does anyone know which mix appeared on the 45? We may have a 45 vs. LP distinction here.
- Was this song's appearance on the original LP soundtrack in stereo (and was it the mix referenced in the BSN clip)?
- Was the 45 mono or stereo?
From the brief clip, it sounds like the soundtrack was given a nice, neutral transfer, which is always appreciated.
And a good sounding CD source of the short 45 version of "Copacabana" is a bonus, since that can be hard to find (I finally found the correct version of the original GH CD that contains the short 45 version).
Foul Play thread
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 11:00pm | IP Logged
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The 45 was mono. I believe the soundtrack album version was always stereo, since I recall Tom Daly saying, in reply to speculation that no one knew where the stereo master for the song was, that he knew exactly where the stereo master was: it was on the soundtrack master for the film.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 12:41am | IP Logged
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I disagree. My recollection is that the 45 was always stereo. The dj 45 was mono/stereo. The "Greatest Hits" LP was always mono. And the "Foul Play" ST LP was always stereo. And whenever anyone wanted to use the song for a CD they always took the "Greatest Hits" LP master (i.e. mono) as their source, since that's the only "Barry Manilow" album it's from. Why they couldn't go to the 45 master tape source is beyond me.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 12:55am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| I disagree. My recollection is that the 45 was always stereo. |
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Well, I'll defer to you, since I don't have a recollection of it. But I'm quite sure I've been told the 45 was mono.
Edited by Brian W. on 16 June 2009 at 12:56am
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 6:53am | IP Logged
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Was the harp that Roscoe mentioned at :27 on the 45?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 11:30am | IP Logged
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Anyone with details on a commercial or promo 45 and the harp?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 5:40pm | IP Logged
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Although labeled "stereo," the "Ready To Take A Chance Again" commercial 45 is neither (M) nor (S). It is (E), with only some extra reverb to differentiate it from the mono side of the DJ 45. My DJ 45's stereo side is identical to my stock copy; in fact, they're from the same stamper.
The harp is loud and clear at the 25-second mark on the stock 45 and both sides of the promo.
A couple of other peculiarities about the 45:
(1) There are a couple of audible clicks from :42-:43 on all three configurations.
(2) There's a pronounced splice at 2:28 (just before the word "ready") that is much more obvious on the stereo sides, due to the tape having been cut at an angle on the splicing block. The mono DJ 45 side smooths it out somewhat.
Edited by Yah Shure on 18 June 2009 at 5:57pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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John:
Thanks for the detailed info.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 7:45pm | IP Logged
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John - (E) in 1978!?! Although mono in 1978 sounds just as ridiculous to me. The only mono pop hits I can think of that charted after that were "Rock This Town", the 45 of "I Melt With You", and Black Box's "I Don't Know Anybody Else"... Can anyone else think of more?
I hauled out The Essential Barry Manilow and it's indeed mono! I did an out-of-phase-sum (OOPS, to the folks on the Steve Hoffman forum), and it cancels down to about -18 dB. You can tell they used a stereo machine to do the analog transfer, because the edit at 2:28 pops out loud and clear.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 18 June 2009 at 7:46pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
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Ron, it's true! I'm shocked, too... well, no, actually. I never noticed the electronic stereo before, since I was working at an AM station at the time the song was a current.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 18 June 2009 at 8:15pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| You can tell they used a stereo machine to do the analog transfer, because the edit at 2:28 pops out loud and clear. |
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Just for grins, I hauled out my picture disc copy of Barry's Greatest Hits LP, where the cut is also in mono. And the edit pops out just as you'd described it, from a stereo machine.
Kinda weird, though, putting a needle to Manilow's face on the turntable. It's like performing acupuncture! Do I need a license to do that? ;)
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 19 June 2009 at 12:18am | IP Logged
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Roscoe wrote:
There's a thread currently active on the BSN forum regarding a recent CD reissue of the "Foul Play" by an obscure label called Intrada. This CD apparently contains the stereo version of "Ready To Take A Chance Again" as well as what is suspected to be the short 45 version of "Copacabana".
One of the members posted a sample of both songs, which raises the following questions with regard to "Ready To Take A Chance Again":
- There is a clear mix difference between the stereo version on this clip and the commonly available mono version, mainly a prominent harp at :25 on the mono version that is absent on the stereo clip. Does anyone know which mix appeared on the 45? We may have a 45 vs. LP distinction here.
- Was this song's appearance on the original LP soundtrack in stereo (and was it the mix referenced in the BSN clip)?
- Was the 45 mono or stereo?
From the brief clip, it sounds like the soundtrack was given a nice, neutral transfer, which is always appreciated.
And a good sounding CD source of the short 45 version of "Copacabana" is a bonus, since that can be hard to find (I finally found the correct version of the original GH CD that contains the short 45 version).
Foul Play thread |
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Great info, Roscoe! It should also be noted that the Foul Play CD is being issued as a limited edition pressing of only 2,000 copies.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 19 June 2009 at 9:02am | IP Logged
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So if the commercial 45, dj 45 and Manilow LP ("Greatest Hits") all have only (E) or (M) versions of the song, did the song only exist in stereo back then on the "Foul Play" soundtrack? How odd if that's the case. Can anyone check the "Foul Play" LP (not CD) and see if it's actually (E) there, too? If so, I wonder where the stereo version (that has shown up on one Manilow German compilation CD and the Foul Play CD) originated from.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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I have as question about this Intrada label issue of the "Foul Play" soundtrack. Don't major labels these days have a 10,000 to 15,000 minimum pressing requirement when they license product from their vaults for reissue? If so then how can Intrada offer a limited editon of 2,000 pressings? This sounds to me like a bootleg release.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
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It depends on the label. Hip-O only pressed 4,000 or 5,000 of some of the Complete Motown series.
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 1:17pm | IP Logged
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But Hip-O is a subsidiary of a major label so they can release whatever they want in whatever quantity they want.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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True. But they're located in Oakland, CA, and they have too many major issues on their own Intrada label, such as the two-disc soundtrack to "Alien," for me to believe they're not licensed.
Besides, a poster on BSN received his copy and it says it's manufactured by Sony, distrubted by Intrada.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
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I, too, get the sense they're legit and not bootleg; I just ordered 2 Intrada CDs - "Foul Play" and "Harry & the Hendersons" soundtrack (in order to get the #14 AC hit "Love Lives On" by Joe Cocker - a great song co-written by Barry Mann. This song has never been released on CD anywhere in the world, so I should be able to tell if they used a master tape source or cleaned vinyl. But from what I read on their website and what I discovered talking to the label on the phone a couple days ago, I did not get the sense they're a bootleg label. Also, I don't think the "2000 copies" should be an indicator of something that may be a bootleg. I know that American Beat was able to license albums from Universal with a much smaller minimum pressing than 10K or 15K (I think 5K or less) and this was due to the relationship between the person who ran American Beat and the person at Universal. A lot of it depends on personal relationships. My guess is that since Intrada has nearly 100 soundtrack releases, they've probably developed a good reputation and formed relationships that allow them to press less copies.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 21 June 2009 at 7:08pm | IP Logged
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BTW, when I receive both CDs, I'll study them closely on headphones and report back about the sound quality and if I think the CDs are legit.
Edited by EdisonLite on 21 June 2009 at 7:08pm
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 22 June 2009 at 6:51am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
| I, too, get the sense they're legit and not bootleg; I just ordered 2 Intrada CDs - "Foul Play" and "Harry & the Hendersons" soundtrack (in order to get the #14 AC hit "Love Lives On" by Joe Cocker - a great song co-written by Barry Mann. This song has never been released on CD anywhere in the world, so I should be able to tell if they used a master tape source or cleaned vinyl. But from what I read on their website and what I discovered talking to the label on the phone a couple days ago, I did not get the sense they're a bootleg label. Also, I don't think the "2000 copies" should be an indicator of something that may be a bootleg. I know that American Beat was able to license albums from Universal with a much smaller minimum pressing than 10K or 15K (I think 5K or less) and this was due to the relationship between the person who ran American Beat and the person at Universal. A lot of it depends on personal relationships. My guess is that since Intrada has nearly 100 soundtrack releases, they've probably developed a good reputation and formed relationships that allow them to press less copies. |
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Are they carving out a small niche as the "hard to find soundtrack reissues" label? If that were the case, I have some recommendations for them, such as National Lampoon's Vacation, Teachers, Summer School. Some soundtrack albums have songs that, while not top 40 hits, had a big impact in terms of radio play or simply because the movie was so popular. Examples include Lindsey Buckingham's "Holiday Road" and "One Foot Back In Your Door" by Roman Holiday from the Teachers soundtrack.
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Topic: Barry Manilow - Foul Play soundtrack
