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sriv94
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| Posted: 11 May 2010 at 12:52pm | IP Logged
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Was wondering if the commercial 45 for "Atlantis" was mono or stereo (and if mono, was it a folddown or a dedicated mix).
Thank you.
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Doug
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 11 May 2010 at 1:21pm | IP Logged
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Mono, Doug. Ditto for the single's A-side, "To Susan On The West Coast Waiting." The mono 45 was the only commercial source for either song for about five months.
I'll let someone else weigh in on the folddown question.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 11 May 2010 at 11:15pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
Mono, Doug. Ditto for the single's A-side, "To Susan On The West Coast Waiting." The mono 45 was the only commercial source for either song for about five months.
I'll let someone else weigh in on the folddown question. |
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And, sadly, looks like it has never been issued in mono on CD. I would be thrilled if it turned out to be a fold-down, but I don't have the single, so I can't tell.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
| I'll let someone else weigh in on the folddown question. |
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Cowards! ;) ;)
I'd originally deferred on this one because I'd loaned my commercial Epic 10434 single to a classmate once the B-side started getting airplay. Lesson learned. Crackle aside, it'll do for this comparison.
I folded down the only "Atlantis" track I have on CD, from the Raven import Love Is Hot, Truth Is Molten (Original Essential Recordings 1965-1973). About the only significant difference I found between it and the 45 was that the guitar on the song's acoustic portion was just a bit more prominent on the mono 45.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 15 May 2010 at 10:31am | IP Logged
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At the risk of hijacking this thread, I have a general question... How common was it for mono 45s to be fold-downs of stereo mixes? I ask because I've always been under the impression that since Top 40 radio stations were primarily heard on the AM band up until around the early '70s, record labels were most concerned about getting their hit records to sound great in mono and that stereo mixes were usually little more than an afterthought to please the "high brow" hi-fi crowd. But then as FM radio and stereo gained in popularity during the '70s and labels increasingly shifted their focus to stereo recordings, it would make sense how mono mixes would've been more likely to become mere fold-downs of their stereo counterparts.
So then my question is, how does one know for sure when a mono recording is a dedicated mix and when it's a fold-down? Or can this only be determined individually by running the stereo version through digital editing software, folding it down to mono, and then comparing it to the vinyl 45?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 15 May 2010 at 10:33am
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 15 May 2010 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| How does one know for sure when a mono recording is a dedicated mix and when it's a fold-down? |
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By reading about it here? :) Seriously, there have been many, many mix differences that I would never have picked up on if the group here hadn't pointed them out. Sometimes those differences are so subtle that I marvel that someone else on the board even noticed them at all.
I can only speak for myself, but it's been years since I used to just sit down and play records for my own amusement. While I do listen to my collection, I'm doing so through microbroadcasting, which means that I'm simultaneously preoccupied with something else either indoors or out, and not listening intently to the music. And, you know, you do get accustomed to hearing those different CD versions over the years.
Fortunately, the board here has been a reawakening. Some of the records I've been asked to compare, including this thread's "Atlantis", hadn't seen a turntable of mine in three or four decades. In researching the seemingly endless project of anthologizing the music from my college radio years, I've uncovered far, far more 45/LP/mono/stereo differences than I ever noticed back in the early and mid-'70s. I didn't have nearly the analytical knack for those details at the time.
But it still comes down to comparison. The majority of the findings I have noticed would not have occurred had I not done direct sound editing comparisons. I'll admit that I'm not prone to doing so on an everyday basis (speed variations - pun intended - really slow down the process) but the rewards from those "Eureka!" discoveries are simply too much fun to resist.
On the fold-down matter, by the mid-to-late '70s, the changes in AM to FM listenership had helped to persuade the record folks that they no longer needed to slave over dedicated mono mixes for AM, even though a substantial portion of the FM audience was listening on mono receivers. Simply folding down the stereo and sticking it on the mono DJ 45 sides meant savings in time and money (and bigger profits.) There was still one technical advantage with those mono DJ sides: a mono fold-down could be cut a bit louder than the comparable stereo mix on the flip side (and theoretically allowing the use of cheaper plastic, leading to even more profits! Wait, did I just say "theoretically?" Scratch that word.) :)
At any rate, the writing was already on the wall. More than anything else, the state of the art of stereo mixing had caught up with the times. More and more promos began appearing with both sides in stereo, leaving the dwindling number of mono-conscious AM stations with no alternatives. The main object of providing radio with the best-sounding mixes possible for airplay hadn't changed at all. There was simply no need for said mixes to be in mono anymore. Now those 45/LP mix variations could all be done in stereo.
I'm sorry, what was the question again? :) Oh,yeah... hail, Atlantis!
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:52am | IP Logged
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First, I just now realized I never thanked Yah Shure for his detailed response to my question. So thank you, Yah Shure!
Second, does anyone know if a shorter radio edit or length was ever issued on a promo 45 for Donovan's "Atlantis"?
Third, does anyone have Donovan's Barabajagal on vinyl LP who can pass along the actual run time? I ask because the 5:01 length on the CD release suggests that the LP may run a little longer than the 45.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 21 December 2011 at 7:13pm | IP Logged
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I found the mono version on an Australian import comp several months ago. There are a few odd ticks in it, but they don't sound to me like vinyl pops, so I believe it is a tape source. You can get an occasional tick in a tape transfer too. I keep meaning to take the few ticks there are in it out, but I keep putting it off.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Atlantis" - Donovan
