Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Deniece Williams Lets Hear It For The Boy

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NightAire
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Posted: 18 July 2010 at 9:08pm \| IP Logged

I've been talking with Aaron about Deniece Williams' "Let's Hear It For The Boy."

All evidence indicates the only version released in 1984 was the 4:20 album length: the LP, the single, & the promo single. However, I thought I remember an edited version being played on the local top 40s.

The version on the movie (Footloose) is smoothly edited, & reminds me of the version I thought I heard on the radio back in the mid-80s. When I edited the 4:20 album / 45 version down to match the movie, it ran 3:35, which is shorter than the "edited / instrumental" on the flip side of the 45.

Does anybody else remember such an edit? Does anybody have a promo copy that DOESN'T run 4:20? (You might time it, even if the label says 4:20... just in case.)

Thanks for any insight you can provide!

Here's a link to the scene from the movie Footloose containing the edited version of the song "Let's Hear It For The Boy":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBbSPsMbMNs

Edited by NightAire on 18 July 2010 at 9:10pm

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Jody Thornton
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Posted: 20 July 2010 at 12:23pm \| IP Logged

I remember that Stereo Rock automation (TM Century) featured an edit of the 12" Remix. Interestingly, they tried to make it sound like the single, and the fade point is in the identical spot as on the soundtrack.

I'm VERY, VERY sure that it was a custom edit. I have recreated it some years ago for my own use, and can pass it along to anyone that wants to hear it. Just message with an email addy.

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NightAire
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:29am \| IP Logged

Perhaps, Jody, that was NOT a custom edit, but the B-side of a promo 12". Look here:

Deniece Williams - Let's Hear It For The Boy

I find roundabout references to a collection called "Classic Cuts 80's Night The Ultimate DJ Collection," allegedly a 16-CD collection. I can't find this actual CD collection for sale, or any legitimate source for it.

Having said that, I can confirm that the version making the rounds on the web contains this mix / edit.

THIS version is the version I think I remember hearing on the local top-40. The station was not affiliated with any service like TM Century; they took what the record labels sent.

Discogs ONLY promo release listed for this single is the 12" above. The A side was 6 minutes, way too long for most stations to play... so it makes sense to me they'd flip it over and play the edit.

Does anybody have a 7" promo-only copy of this song from 1984?

This could tell us, for certain and for sure, whether radio stations were serviced with (and / or played) the "Jellybean remix / edit."

The mix is different than the movie scene, and the edit points are different as well.

Here's another reference to this promo 12":

Columbia As 1838 - Let's Hear It For The Boy (6:00) / Let's Hear It For The Boy (3:34) - 1984 (12" promo issue only)

EDIT:

Aw, fer HEAVEN'S sake! Now I've found a version that only has the bass notes of the keyboard at the beginning instead of doubling an octave higher!!! It's a Polygram(German label) CD called "Best Of 80s Black."

Shazam

Amazon

Gert Hellmann

(BABELFISH TRANSLATION OF PAGE, ABOVE (slightly cleaned up): "Here you can buy from a range of music CDs on-line. Naturally you can also simply only inform. Description: In order to get these music CDs you must exchange one of your music CDs against them. Conditions are a tidy packing, as well as that the CD is scratch-free and is not falsified or a copy.")

I REALLY think there was a lot more going on with this single than we realize right now. I'd sure like to get the differences sorted out!

Edited by NightAire on 14 November 2010 at 2:18am

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aaronk
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 9:41am \| IP Logged

Whether or not a remix/edit 7" promo single was released or not, it's plausible that stations could've carted up the shorter b-side of the 12". Hopefully someone can come forward with further details on it.

As for the German import mix you found, maybe it was an unfinished mix that accidentally slipped out, or perhaps there was a European version different from what we got in the US.

jimct
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 3:11am \| IP Logged

Gene, kind sir, I can sense the very strong level of hope/confidence you have regarding still-undiscovered details for this song, and I love your level of enthusiasm. And I have learned to never say never. But we on the Board have already gone over the 80's with a fine tooth comb, far more than any other decade to date. First off, I tried to listen to your original posts's YouTube link, but that clip has since been removed - no help there. Secondly, I own and have pulled both the 1984 promo 45 and the AS 1838 promo 12" single for you. I just don't know what else to tell you about your strong "gut feeling" that a second, different promo 45 does actually exist, other than to say that I am certain we got in just the one promo 45 version, and it's the common, exactly-the-same-version on both sides of it, right down to the deadwax info! I was way deep into the Music operation at my longtime Top 40 radio station during 1984. As for the Jellybean remixes promo 12", the short side of that 12" does have both a listed and actual time of (3:34). I remember that we did listen to this version when it came in, but both my boss and I both thought it to be far inferior to the 45/LP version (just too "busy" for us), so we passed on it, and stayed with the common version. Now that doesn't mean other North American Top 40's didn't go ahead and air it. And it was not uncommon back then for radio to request that a label "give us a shorter version of the hit mix, that mimics the edit points of the Remix/Edit". Or, "Give us the 'Movie Version Edit'". Sometimes they would, but more often they wouldn't. Then, depending on a station's conviction level about it, they'd either just "live with" the longer version, or splice up a "custom version" the way they want it - it often wasn't that time-consuming a task. These were then often shared in several different markets (everyone knew everyone in radio back then); I felt you may have been a bit quick to dismiss this fact with your "radio played what they were sent" comment - not always, based on my long expereince in the trenches. Hope this info helps, Gene, and continued success with your show!

Edited by jimct on 15 November 2010 at 3:21am

NightAire
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 9:40am \| IP Logged

Jim, this is EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for!!! THANK YOU. This answers:

* Was top 40 radio serviced the commercial 45? YES.
* Was the 12" listed serviced to radio too? YES.
* Did any stations (possibly most) play the commercial 45? YES.

I know it sounds silly, but I may sleep a little better tonight. :-D

Now the only question for me remains whether my local station ACTUALLY played the B-side of the 12" (finding out WHY would be nice) or if I'm misremembering.

...The bad news for the guys who programmed my favorite Top 40 growing up is, I'm still in contact with them. You KNOW they're gonna love hearing from me about the B-side of a 12" from 26 years ago! XD

(Our conversations often go like this: "...I'm not sure... if you say that's what we played, I suspect you're right, I've slept since then, & YOU have more tape of the station than WE do..." LOL! Poor guys...)

Seriously Jim, thank you... this really did put to bed several nagging questions.

...And I promise: I'm done. :)

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Jody Thornton
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 10:46am \| IP Logged

Hi Gene:

Are you sure that the B-Side of the 12" single was a remix? I thought it was the LP version (maybe with an early fade). I really don't think that the video clip "version" from the movie ever made it to vinyl.

I am pretty certain, though not 100% on this that TM Stereo Rock edited their own "single-length" version of the 12". You'll remember my custom edit right? Except for the fade length (because Stereo Rcok used fast 5-second or so fade with their automation tapes so that the 25 Hz cue could be detected, the edit I did is spot on with what they aired.

TM and Drake-Chenault commonly edited their own single-length versions from either the LP or 12" single, because the vinyl quieter and more flexible than a 45-rpm disc. There were better dynamics and less sibilance in most cases too.

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Jody Thornton
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jimct
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 11:57am \| IP Logged

Jody, the differences between the standard/Jellybean remixes of this song are not subtle, and I believe would jump right out at anyone even mildly familiar with the song within the first 30 seconds. To summarize, the B-side of the 12" single is absolutely an edit of the 6:00 Jellybean remix. To me, your "TM stereo rock did a custom version" thoery is quite plausible, since we've now done much checking to determine/confirm that an "official" Columbia edit of the standard 45/LP version was just not done.

NightAire
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 4:24pm \| IP Logged

Jody, I now agree that the movie edit never made it to vinyl or CD, to my knowledge.

The edit I was remembering appears to be the edit of the remix on the B-side of the promo remix Jim is referring to, rather than the "movie edit."

Jim's also right that the differences REALLY jump out: greater reverb on some of the snare hits, greater reverb on her voice, an extra keyboard part (or a buried keyboard part brought WAY up in the mix) during the verses, and then when A/B'ing it with the album version, completely different vocal takes on SOME but not ALL of the lines.

You've made curious to find out if TM Stereo Rock really DID do their own edit of the 12"... it would seem an odd thing to do, since there was already a nice edit on the flip-side... but, stranger things have happened. :)

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Jody Thornton
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 10:19pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

OK I must've missed that point when I skimmed through really quickly. And yes I'm familiar with the differences (harder percussion and a completely new vocal take).

Do you have an email addy I could send my edit to you and ytou could see if it were the same? I'd be quite interested.

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Jody Thornton
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jimct
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 1:23am \| IP Logged

Jody, I'm thinking you can answer your own question here, since you're familiar with the remix, own that TM version, and you must already have the common, #1 hit original LP/45v somewhere. If the TM version sounds like the #1 hit's mix, then the TM custom version was created from it. However, if the TM version has the harder percussion/different vocal take, and runs (3:34), then TM used the 12" Jellybean edit for its source. Unless I'm missing something, of course! :)

NightAire
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 1:37am \| IP Logged

Jim, I think he may be wondering if TM edited the 12" down at the same points Columbia did... is that right, Jody?

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Jody Thornton
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 9:45am \| IP Logged

NightAire wrote:

Jim, I think he may be wondering if TM edited the 12" down at the same points Columbia did... is that right, Jody?

Bingo!

Yes I know the mix differences, but I was curious if the edits I made were the same as the "Jellybean" edit.

Remember, until yesterday, I was never sure there was ACTUALLY a record that sounded like that. I thought all of these years that it was a custom edit.

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Jody Thornton
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jimct
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Posted: 16 November 2010 at 6:18pm \| IP Logged

Now I gotcha! Tell you what - as many of you know, I am pretty ear-dead at distinguishing minute audio details; my "strength" has always been pretty much just owning the stuff. Typically, I've enlisted the kind heart/audio skill of my good buddy AaronK in cases like this. He will soon have the audio from my promo 12" available to him, and I know would be more than happy to compare it against your TM audio, Jody, and give you an answer - just give he and I some time to set things up for the analysis of this particular song.

Edited by jimct on 16 November 2010 at 6:19pm

Jody Thornton
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Posted: 17 November 2010 at 9:52pm \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

Thanks a million. You guys are really helpful as always.
:)

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Jody Thornton
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NightAire
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Posted: 18 November 2010 at 12:09am \| IP Logged

Your edit is ALMOST note-for-note identical to the B-side of the promo 12" remix.

The two differences are: in the beginning where you let the keyboard play for a few bars without the guitar duplicating the keyboard, while the "official" edit jumps to the guitar / keyboard section immediately (you both use the same number of bars & quickly join up). Then, the same thing happens about 2:17.

FYI: I have just discovered the 3:35 Jellybean edit CANNOT be recreated from the 6:00 remix for two reasons:

1st, during the "breakdown" starting at 2:17 & lasting until 2:40, there is significantly greater reverb on the hand claps at 2:21, 2:24, 2:28, 2:32, 2:36, & 2:40 in the edit.

2nd, at the end of that breakdown at 2:40, there are extra beats as a "drum fill" to get back into the chorus in the edit. In other words, instead of one "TAH," you have "TAH-TAH-TAH" right before she sings, "...cuz every time he pulls me near..."

Also, the version I suspected above might be from a German CD might be from YOU, Jody... it is, byte-for-byte, identical to the edit you just provided me. Makes me think I didn't label it properly the first time you sent it to me. *BLUSH*

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mainrhythm
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Posted: 18 November 2010 at 3:54pm \| IP Logged

I have a version on a TM Century GoldDisc that when compared to my Billboard '84 & Sounds Of The Eighties CDs has less compression overall. It could be the same mix just quieter?? It's 4:11 but seems like an early fade.

Edited by mainrhythm on 18 November 2010 at 3:55pm

NightAire
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Posted: 19 November 2010 at 8:47pm \| IP Logged

MainRhythm, I have no answer on that one! It's certainly possible that they might have faded the album version to more closely match the fade point on the B-side "remix / edit" on the 12" and cut out the instrumental vamp at the end, in the process. Interesting, if that's the case.

-----

I thought y'all might be interested in the response I got from the Program Director & the Music Director of the top 40 station I grew up listening to:

Quote:

Sorry, Gene, I have no recollection about this whatsoever. Since she wasn't what anyone would consider to be a "groundbreaking" artist, I thank we probably just dubbed to cart whatever was on the single that was serviced to radio.

and:

Quote:

Wow... you're weird :-)

Pretty sure we played the 4:20 version... not 100% on it but pretty darn sure. We might have faded it early on the cart but that's just a wild guess. 4:20 seems right to me. I'm also thinking, for the most part, other than Friday or Saturday night we probably would not have played the Re-Mix.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

So, I've managed to alienate two more radio friends in The Quest For The Radio Edit. :-D LOL!

...and, of course, pointed them to this site, blaming my anal obsession with The Hit Version on you guys. ;-)

THANK YOU, as always, for your help on this and so many other hard-to-find or hard-to-determine radio versions.

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