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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 July 2013 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
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I notice in Joel Whitburn's The Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits publication (7th edition), there's a notation for The Illusion's "Did You See Her Eyes" indicating that "a slightly different version was issued on Steed 712 in 1969".
Can anyone elaborate on the difference(s) between the two versions? And which one currently appears on the lone database CD?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 23 July 2013 at 10:35am | IP Logged
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See Jim's detailed post below:)
Edited by Paul Haney on 23 July 2013 at 12:54pm
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jimct
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| Posted: 23 July 2013 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
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Todd, I just did a little bit of on-line research for ya. Steed 712 was an
edit of an earlier, late 1968 take of the song. Steed owner Jeff Barry
thought the song had hit potential, but hated the way the Steed 712 edit
came out. Although both stock and promo copies do exist (and I now have
a promo 45 coming), Barry stopped all promotion for the Steed 712 45,
resolving to "start from scratch" with it soon. He did. Both a different take
of the song, and a different edit was done. Steed 718, the Top 40 hit
version of the song, was then released.
Also, a poster on the Steve Hoffman board has commented that, although
it's close, the Dick Bartley db CD is *not* an exact match of the Steed 718
45 edit. If anyone owns both sources of audio, and can confirm/deny this,
that would be great. Otherwise, I will get everything out to Aaron, as soon
as I can.
Edited by jimct on 23 July 2013 at 2:12pm
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MPH711
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| Posted: 23 July 2013 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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The earlier version is a different recording of the song by
The Illusion...here is a UK copy of the 45.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzVbqOsKKY
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 July 2013 at 2:22pm | IP Logged
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While the hit Steed 718 45 has been out of circulation in that format for years, the earlier Steed 712 version has been available since 1991 on the Collectables 3730 reissue 45 (backed with the LP version of Fever Tree's "San Francisco Girls".) I bought a copy for my jukebox and was hugely disappointed in the non-hit Illusion side of the record, and ended up using a used Steed 718 copy in its place.
Did the "ahhh-yah-yah-yaahh-yaahh" break on Steed 718 provide the inspiration for Crowbar's 1971 Canadian hit, "Oh What A Feeling"?
As for the flip: if you're used to the sped-up Uni 45 version of "San Francisco Girls," the album version sounds verrry slowwww.
Edited by Yah Shure on 24 July 2013 at 5:00pm
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jono
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| Posted: 24 July 2013 at 10:02am | IP Logged
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If there is a difference between the Bartley cd and Steed 718, I can't tell what it is. Other than stereo/mono, they sound identical to me. Maybe someone with good comparison software can tell better than I can. Just in listening side by side, though, they sound the same to me.
Jon O.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 July 2013 at 4:59pm | IP Logged
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I agree with Jon: I don't hear any elements on either mix that are unique to one or the other.
That's not to say they're identical, which becomes apparent during the bridge. The two sync up in speed very closely up until that point, but once the "aah-yah-yah-yah-yah" refrain kicks in, either the mono 45 runs slower or the Bartley mix runs faster. But as soon as that segment ends and the final verse is edited in, they're both back to being nearly in sync and remain that way through the end of the song. Mind you, no one in their right mind would ever notice the difference.
Oh, right... I forgot which board this was. ;)
The beginning of the Steed 718 dedicated mono mix reminds me of the intro on the mono 45 mix of the Yardbirds' "Little Games", vs. its stereo LP counterpart. As each new instrument is introduced during the intro, the previously highlighted one is pushed further into the background. On the Steed 718 mono single, the opening guitar strums are quickly potted up, then remain at the same level until the first drum hit (which happens to be the highest peak level on the entire 45) at which point the guitar is dropped back a bit. The second and third drum beats are brought down compared to the first, then both the guitar and drums take a dive in level as the bass and high-hat kick in and drive the rest of the run-up to the vocal.
On the stereo Bartley mix, those same instruments during the intro all remain at the same levels. There's no knob twiddling going on here.
I should add that my stock Steed 718 45 is a Monarch styrene pressing, deadwax ST-1035-RE-1 and delta number 76597.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 July 2013 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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Thanks everyone for all the background information.
Now, how am I able to tell if I'm listening to the hit or non-hit 45 version of "Did You See Her Eyes" (assuming of course I'm not looking at the vinyl 45s themselves)? For instance, is the "ahh-yah-yah-yaahh-yaahh" break only on the hit 45 version (Steed 718)?
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 25 July 2013 at 6:08am | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| For instance, is the "ahh-yah-yah-yaahh-yaahh" break only on the hit 45 version (Steed 718)? |
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Right, that's one sure way to tell them apart. Here's a much earlier giveaway, during the opening seconds of the intro:
Steed 712 non-hit version:
* Four guitar strums
* (rest)
* Five guitar strums
* (rest)
* Four guitar strums, with an added hi-hat, beginning on the first of the four strums
* Five guitar strums with hi-hat
* Bass guitar kicks in on the first of the next four guitar strums.
Steed 718 hit version:
* Four guitar strums
* (rest)
* Five guitar strums, with the first wallop of a drumbeat coming in between the 4th and 5th strums
* Four guitar strums, with continued drumming. Hi-hat and a heavy bass begin on the first of these strums
* Five guitar strums, drumming, bass and hi-hat.
The difference is pronounced enough between the two versions that the Steed 712 sounds like an early demo compared to the more fully-realized Steed 718 production. Here's a link to the latter hit version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MDiPbGGXk
(Can't say that I'm a fan of how that YouTube poster handles 45s. Fingerprints, anyone?)
Edited by Yah Shure on 25 July 2013 at 6:17am
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jono
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| Posted: 25 July 2013 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
That's not to say they're identical, which becomes apparent during the bridge. The two sync up in speed very closely up until that point, but once the "aah-yah-yah-yah-yah" refrain kicks in, either the mono 45 runs slower or the Bartley mix runs faster. But as soon as that segment ends and the final verse is edited in, they're both back to being nearly in sync and remain that way through the end of the song. I should add that my stock Steed 718 45 is a Monarch styrene pressing, deadwax ST-1035-RE-1 and delta number 76597.
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I was wondering what was happening when my 45 was getting off track from the Bartley cd. I thought at first there was a speed difference but then they would come back in sync again. I just chalked that up to me not having the two sources synced properly.
My copy of Steed 718 is styrene and has deadwax ST-1035-RE, although if I give the record a 1/4 turn there is a lone "5" (no quotes on the actual record).
Edited by jono on 25 July 2013 at 11:24am
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 25 July 2013 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
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Jon, it appears that our 45s are at least on the same page, even though they aren't from the same cutting. That wasn't the case with another Steed 45 from a few months earlier:
I have three copies of Andy Kim's "Baby I Love You" on Steed 716. Two are Monarch styrenes; one is a promo and the other is the stock copy I bought when the record was brand new. The promo is a mono double-A sider, and one of the two cuttings is identical to my stock. The etched deadwax matrix and delta numbers are in a different spot on the other side of the promo, even though the numbers themselves are the same. Etching differences aside, the stampers used on both sides of the promo appear to have been sourced from the same mother, and they sound identical.
My third copy is an east coast stock vinyl pressing, which had long been retired from one of the local top-40 stations. The label is the same as the one used on the Monarch stock (prepped by Alco Research & Engineering) right down to the identical fonts and placements.
I never bought 45s without first giving them a visual inspection, and what immediately caught my eye upon doing so with that Monarch stock back in '69 was the unusually wide groove spacing at the beginning of the A-side. It was the first time I'd ever seen variable groove pitch utilized on a 45. Having already become familiar with the tune on the radio, I knew it had to be on account of the loud drumbeats during the intro. Needless to say, those drum salvos on that record crack like rifle shots: BOOM! BOOM! After the initial volleys, the grooves resume a normal pitch pattern for the duration of the side.
I hadn't listened to the vinyl copy until fairly recently, since it isn't in the best of shape. Upon taking it out of its sleeve, the first thing I noticed was that it did *not* utilize variable pitched grooves at all. The deadwax bears the "LW" initials of the Long Wear Stamper Company, although the handwriting isn't the same as it is on the more-familiar Atlantic/Atco "LW" etchings. The other deadwax marking on this vinyl copy is simply "ST-1031". No "RE" or "RE-1".
Upon playing the vinyl copy, it was apparent from the start that the mastering engineer had taken a decidedly more conservative approach to cutting the side than his or her west coast counterpart. The opening drumbeats were about half as loud, and the highs on the rest of the song weren't nearly as sparkling. I'd guess that the east coast cutting lathe lacked variable groove pitch capability, so the engineer felt it necessary to tame the wild beast... not that that decision should have excused the muffled high end.
One thing was certain: the west coast cutting engineer went the extra mile to bring out the best in one of Jeff Barry's finest production moments.
Edited by Yah Shure on 25 July 2013 at 9:35pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 25 July 2013 at 7:58pm | IP Logged
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Great info, Yah Shure, and very helpful. Thanks!
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Did You See Her Eyes" - The Illusion
