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edtop40
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| Posted: 25 March 2006 at 9:14am | IP Logged
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does anyone know or have any usa promo cd single of the below list of songs that were airplay hits in the late 90's....if so, i'd like the label & catalog number of them that you could verify........thx edtop40
chesney, kenny you had me from hello
dion, celine to love you more
dixie chicks you were mine & ready to run
eve (ruff ryders) what ya want
garbage ; '#1 crush
hill, lauryn can't take my eyes off of you
hootie & blowfish i go blind
jackson, janet where are you now
live &nbs p; all over you
mcbride, martina whatever you say
mcgraw, tim for a little while
so me th ing like that
mcknight, brian anytime
messina, jo dee stand beside me
lesson in leavin'
morissette, alanis head over feet
uninvited
smashing pumpkins landslide
smith, will men in black
timbaland & magoo luv 2 luv u
travolta/newton-john the grease megamix
womack, lee ann i'll think of a reason later
if anyone has any of these usa promo cd singles please verify the label & catalog number.........also........if anyone knows that they've seen a usa promo on any of the above songs that would be welcomed too...thx edtop40
Edited by edtop40 on 25 March 2006 at 9:37am
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rickduran
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I have a a few on your list, but I don't have any of the country promos.
Celine Dion- To Love you More - Sony BSK 41204-
2 tracks- Radio Edit (4:39) and Album version (5:28)
This was not easy to find when it came out.
Brian McKnight- Anytime - Mercury MECP 349-
1 track- Radio Edit (4:08)
Will Smith- Men In Black - Columbia CSK 0787 -
3 tracks- Album mix (3:48), MIB Master mix (3:40), Track Masters Instrumental (3:48)
Travolta/Newton-John- The Grease Megamix-
Polydor PRCDP 00326 - 4 tracks:
1. radio edit (3:57)
2. thurman/dutrey radio edit (4:26)
3. album version (4:51)
4. 12" version (5:52)
As far as the others on your list. I remember that there was a promo for #1 Crush by Garbage.
I do not believe "I Go Blind" was released on promo. I never could find a copy and wound up finding it on an import single for another Hootie song. It was an album track that was being played while the record company was promoting "Sad Caper" as a single.
I never saw a promo for "Uninvited". I bought an import single of "Head over Feet" after I could not find a promo copy.
I don't think "All over You" by Live was released on promo CD.
I hope this helps you out.
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Brian W.
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We've pretty much determined that there was no promo for Janet Jackson's "Where are You Now." It seems to have been played only as an album track. No one has ever seen one, and there isn't one listed on the comprehensive Jackson Family Database discography online.
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aaronk
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While looking at some of the big airplay hits of the '90s, I started to make a
list of songs that I've never found on a promo CD single. The list I've
come up with so far is:
Alanis Morissette "Head Over Feet" (#1 R&R)
Alanis Morissette "Uninvited" (#1 R&R)
Counting Crows "Einstein On The Beach" (#45 BB - #1 Modern Rock)
Hootie & The Blowfish "I Go Blind" (#24 R&R)
Janet Jackson "Where Are You Now" (#30 BB)
Live "All Over You" (#33 BB)
Pearl Jam "Better Man" (#24 R&R)
Stone Temple Pilots "Big Empty" (#35 R&R)
Edited by aaronk on 25 November 2013 at 10:49pm
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Aaron Kannowski
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aaronk
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Any others you can think of to add to the above list?
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jimct
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In my 30 years working at my local Top 40 station, I can't remember
*any* other song where we made a record company 1/100th as mad at
us for ever playing a song as we did Atlantic, by playing "I Go Blind".
1996/97 was, perhaps the last year or so that we would either call in or
fax our playlist to the trade mags (as opposed to Soundscan
technology, where the major publications would monitor us 24/7, and
generate the actual number of spins songs would get per week.) And I
wouldn't be half surprised if a wacky song situation, like "I Go Blind"
didn't result in speeding up the trade mag industry's "we've gotta shift
to Soundscan ASAP" timeline. But this song situation was only the #2
reason why the trade mags wanted a methodology change.
The #1 reason was that some stations would add a song to their "public
playlist", but then only play it rarely, if ever. This was mainly done for
"business reasons" between the station, such as "we'll have Group A
swing by your station/sing a song or two live/you can invite 3 winners
to the studio for autographs"-type thing, if we would add two unknown
songs, by Group B and C to our playlist. This was not "payola". Payola
was a direct transfer of cash, etc. from a record label to a DJ, bypassing
station ownership. Basically, the first scenario is the same as a record
label buying 25 :60 commercials on a station, saying "Buy the new
Alanis Morissette album." Perfectly legal.
The group most annoyed with such individual station/record company
arrangements like this, however, were the trade magazines. And
understandably so. Don't get me wrong. Only a small percentage of
reporting stations would engage in such "cozy label dealings" more
than once/twice a year. And, generally speaking, smaller-size, smaller
market stations, who had less working capital to work with, to budget
for contests/giveaways during the rating sweeps. Luckily, some
inadvertent "self-policing" was always taking place. Reporting stations
had to be mindful that their weekly "adds" were out there, for all other
subscribing stations to see, and if too many "red herrings" appeared
from one station, it would quickly become obvious, to both the trade
mags and other MDs/PDs. In fact, such stations ran the risk of being
dropped as a reporting station, which would very negatively affect both
a station's and its personnel's prestige, as well as the level of its record
service. (Not to mention getting an industry rep for having a "tin ear!")
All this was a good thing. Because when any of those songs did "get
through", be it legal or not, it made radio's reported lists less "merit-
based", as to which songs stations were adding, and exactly why. Any
"influenced adds" could potentially eat away at the credibility of the
trade mag's overall calculations, through no fault of their own. Because
it obscured the truth a bit. Was this unknown song by this new group
getting all these adds "on its own", because it was an absolute smash,
or could there be some "special label assistance?" The labels always
wanted the trade mags to think that every add were 100% on the up-
and-up. Not always true. The best safeguard the trade mags had was
the large number of total reporting stations they had. Like any sample -
the larger the number, the more accurate the data.
I felt this background info was necessary, to make my main point here.
A much less common, but equally undesirable "skew" of reported
playlist info was that there were also songs that we *were* playing,
even in heavy and/or medium current airplay, that would not appear on
our reported playlist at all. The "Poster Child Song" for this category
was "I Go Blind." Here's why:
Hootie & The Blowfish's 1994 debut album, "Cracked Rear View"
produced 4 huge Top 40 hits. Atlantic had very high hopes for an
equally successful 2nd album, but, in Sept. of '95, its release was still
many months away. So when the Reprise label was preparing an album
of mostly "featured on an episode" tracks from the hit TV show
"Friends", Atlantic was both asked, and agreed to furnish a rejected
track from Hootie's debut LP to appear on it. But with one caveat:
Reprise couldn't 1) issue a promo CD single for it, or 2) try to
specifically promote the track to radio. And Reprise kept their word, on
both counts. Why did Atlantic agree to this at the time? (I was told all
this privately, much later.) 1) It might enable the band to maintain a
small degree of public visibility, until the "Fairweather Johnson" album
was ready. 2) Such arrangements were commonplace among the labels,
over many years, with no real downside ever resulting for a label. So
which song did Atlantic end up furnishing to Reprise, for "Friends"? You
guessed it - "I Go Blind."
Well, from Atlantic's standpoint, the perfect storm then ensued. The
"Friends" TV show became the rage of prime time. The TV album went
platinum, and with little effort from Reprise at all, both big sales and
big buzz were still attached to the album, by May of 1996. Which was
the very same month that "Fairweather Johnson" was released. And
Atlantic pulled out all the marketing and promotional stops for it. But
when the first P CD S from it, "Old Man & Me" was basically a mid-
charter, we took note. And when the second P CD S, "Tucker's Town"
came out, we thought that track was just OK, as well. And this song
wasn't getting much early audience response, either. At this point, we
realized that the 2nd LP wasn't nearly as strong as the first one was.
We'd known of the "I Go Blind" track, for months already. Some AOR
stations had been playing it. We always liked it, too. But Atlantic kept
telling us that the "Killer New Hootie Album" would be out any week
now, and to sit tight. So we did. But after the first two songs basically
flopped, we began to wish that the 2nd album had something half as
catchy as "I Go Blind" on it. But it didn't. We'd never forgotten about it.
And, apparently, we were *far* from the only Top 40 station getting our
"Hootie Instructions" from Atlantic. So we made a unanimous decision.
In our own station's best interests. We started playing "I Go Blind".
I still have every 1996 reported playlist we generated. I also still have
about half of the "internal info sheets." This page indicated both the
actual "raw spins data" per week, as well as which songs we'd decided
were going to be in "high" (play 3 per hour; 7 total songs), "medium"
(play 2 per hour; 10 total songs), and "light" (play 1 per hour; 5 total
songs, and played only during the lighter-commercial-hours of 7P-5A)
airplay rotation categories. The earliest internal sheet with "I Go Blind"
shown on it, for us, was 10/1/96, in light rotation. (FYI, "Tucker's
Town" was still in medium rotation that same week, and obviously
appeared on the playlist we reported to the trade mags. But we didn't
*dare* officially report "I Go Blind", however, fearing that us doing so
would send our local Atlantic rep into an epileptic seizure!) Radio and
the record labels would always try to both get along and keep the
peace, as best we could. But our bottom lines are different - let's face it
- we care about us getting the highest ratings possible the most, and
they care about selling records more than they do our ratings. Us not
reporting "I Go Blind" was a compromise, of sorts. We played both the
Hootie track WE wanted to play the most, while still playing the one
Atlantic wanted us to play the most. They are usually one and the same.
But not here. (We even added the third P CD S, "Sad Caper", on
10/22/96, still trying to respect our friends at Atlantic, but gave it just
2 off-hour spins a day, for 5 weeks. Because, for all 5 of these weeks,
we were "otherwise pre-occupied" with Hootie, as you will read next.)
You aren't gonna believe this next stat: for *twenty-two* straight
weeks - from 10/15/1996 to 3/11/1997 - we played "I Go Blind" in
"high" rotation at our station. That's 7-8 spins a day - for FIVE solid
months!!!! In fact, "I Go Blind" was played SO many times, for so long,
that it was one of just a handful of songs, ever, to make our year-end
Top 100 Hits on-air countdown for two consecutive years (which I alone
compiled, based 100% on spins as a current, during that year - no
labels to appease!) For both 1996 (#36 in most spins) *and* 1997 (even
higher - #14 in most spins!!!)
Yet you will not have found "I Go Blind" to have ever appeared on a
single one of our officially reported weekly surveys, during any of those
five months. Why? Because Atlantic obviously didn't want to see it
"chart". It wasn't on their label. And the *last* thing Reprise ever wanted
to see was "I Go Blind" charting anywhere - especially into 1997 - all
that would do was to flare up the old, bad feelings with Atlantic over
the song, like "Guys, are you *sure* you weren't working "I Go Blind" to
radio? Because over here, we all still think that that one damn song
caused Hootie's entire second album to flop!!!!"
The moral of the story? (And the reason I decided to post all this!)
Reprise was prohibited from making a P CD S for "I Go Blind", as a pre-
condition to use the track. That info came directly from the mouth of
the Atlantic rep serving our region at the time.
My longest post ever? Probably! (Anybody still out there?) Zzzzzzzzzzz.
Guess not. :)
Edited by jimct on 26 November 2013 at 5:15am
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Hykker
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I remember playing "I Go Blind" on our station, though I
don't recall it being more than a mid-charter for
us...certainly nothing we would have played as a current
for 5 months. We did report it, as music director, I was
the one who phoned in those reports. The only song from
that era that I recall us getting some flak on was "Man
From Milwaukee" by Hanson, a "hidden" track on their
"Middle Of Nowhere" CD. We'd gotten a lot of requests
for it, and added it instead of one of the weaker follow-
up singles. That one made our year-end countdown.
I could have sworn we received a promo for IGB, but it
seems there wasn't one so I guess we didn't. I don't
recall any animosity from our Atlantic rep for us playing
it though, and unlike many label reps, he stopped by
regularly.
As far as BDS monitoring goes...that was a sore subject
at our station. In the late 90s R&R decided to dump any
reporters who were not BDS-monitored. Our market
(Manchester, N.H.) was one of those that didn't rate (the
2 Class B's...AOR WGIR-FM and soft AC WZID were
apparently receivable at their Boston monitoring station,
and the rest of us apparently didn't matter). They did
create a "back of the bus" chart for "indicator stations"
(whatever that meant), but our airplay was no longer
incorporated into their offical lists.
Edited by Hykker on 26 November 2013 at 7:49am
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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Great stories! In 1996/97, I'd severed my top 40 ties and
was concentrating on the left end of the dial in Rochester,
NY. Although I'd worked at 98PXY in 1990, all my inside
connections had left by then.
From the point of view of a listener, top 40 radio
certainly positioned "I Go Blind" as the follow-up to "Old
Man And Me". I didn't even realize it was on another label
at the time. I certainly didn't realize it was a remake
(how on earth did Hootie And The Blowfish cross paths with
the Canadian band 54-40?)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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Hykker wrote:
| I could have sworn we received a promo for IGB, but it seems there wasn't one so I guess we didn't. |
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For the longest time, I swore my old station had a promo CD of "I Go Blind," too; however, I'm now certain that the song I was thinking about was the officially released single from "Friends," which was Toad The Wet Sprocket's "Good Intentions." I don't doubt Jim's recollection and knowledge on the Hootie song.
As far as the chart success of that song goes, our station also played it in power rotation, although probably not for five months. My memory says it was at least as big as "Old Man And Me" (if not bigger). What Atlantic should have done is included it on "Fairweather Johnson" and promoted it. I'm sure it would have easily been a top 5 song.
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Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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aaronk
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jimct wrote:
My longest post ever? Probably! (Anybody still out there?) Zzzzzzzzzzz.
Guess not. :) |
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I read the whole thing! I love these stories!
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Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 2:15pm | IP Logged
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I'm very interested in the run time for the
promo/commercial CD single for Lauryn Hill's "Can't Take My
Eyes Off Of You." The album version runs around 3:40 and
tracks into the next selection. I've seen a video online
that runs around 4:23 or so. The 4:23 or so version is the
one I'm looking for.
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Smokin' TomGary
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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Here are a few promo infos from the lists above:
Uninvited Alanis Morissette Test Pressing B8K05QD3S Demo/Soundtrack Versions plus 2 other titles
To Love You More Celine Dion BSK-41402 Two Moran's Versions plus 1 other title
Ready To Run Dixie Chicks NSK-42302 1 Version 3:49 listed time
Something Like That Tim McGraw
CURBD-1529/PRCD-9023 3:03 listed time
Anytime Brian McKnight MECP-392 Two Suave Remixes
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Hykker
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
The #1 reason was that some stations would add a song to
their "public
playlist", but then only play it rarely, if ever. This
was mainly done for
"business reasons" between the station, such as "we'll
have Group A
swing by your station/sing a song or two live/you can
invite 3 winners
to the studio for autographs"-type thing, if we would add
two unknown
songs, by Group B and C to our playlist. |
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Yeah, being one of those small market stations with
limited (read: none) promotional budget, yet had to still
sound big market, we had to do this from time to time.
For a while we actually had a Selector daypart of 11pm-
4am only for these songs. We'd play 'em a couple weeks,
maybe 5 spins a week, then drop them. We'd held up our
end of the deal by adding the song, the promo guy got his
song on a reporting station, no one seemed to care that
we buried them in overnights.
This was not limited to small stations though...Jim I
don't know if KC-101 in New Haven was the station you
worked at, but I remember in the late 90s them hammering
a horrible stiff called "Not The Greatest Rapper" by 1000
Clowns. Turns out they were "headlining" some sort of
benefit concert the station was hosting. Seemed odd to
see in a market that size.
Of course, so-called "paper adds" have been around as
long as stations have been reporting to trades.
Edited by Hykker on 26 November 2013 at 2:46pm
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80smusicfreak
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aaronk wrote:
| What Atlantic should have done is included it on "Fairweather Johnson" and promoted it. I'm sure it would have easily been a top 5 song. |
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The reason "I Go Blind" didn't appear on Fairweather Johnson was because it had already been on a top 10 single. Great song, but everyone here seems to be forgetting that it was actually the B-side of the group's very first commercial single, "Hold My Hand" (Atlantic 87230), all the way back in the Fall of '94 - the Friends TV soundtrack was NOT its first appearance! Photos here (and I'm sure edtop40 has this one): "Hold My Hand" cassette single. So it had already been used/"promoted" TWICE by the time FJ came out...
I thought "Old Man & Me (When I Get to Heaven)" was an excellent song, and should've done a little better - probably the group's most underrated. I agree w/ jimct that the follow-up, "Tucker's Town", was "just OK". I don't even remember hearing the album's third single, "Sad Caper", at all (radio or MTV/VH-1). But yeah, definitely not as strong as their debut, Cracked Rear View...
On a side note, around the time FJ had already run its course, but before the group's third album, Musical Chairs, hit store shelves (circa 1997-98), I attended a Yankees home game in the old "House That Ruth Built" in the South Bronx. Didn't know it was going to happen until the announcer spoke, but lead singer Darius Rucker happened to be the one who walked out onto the field and sang the National Anthem just before the start of the game that day. I think he's a great singer, so that was a pleasant surprise...
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crapfromthepast
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Hykker wrote:
| Of course, so-called "paper adds" have been around as long as stations have been reporting to trades. |
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I know of one case where there was definitely airplay, but probably no reporting. In 1989, I heard 98PXY/Rochester, NY play a song by Sunny Joe White called "Jackie Lucky". It was a dancy thing, similar in flavor to "Regret" by New Order.
I thought this song was so horrendous, and so far beneath everything else that 98PXY was playing at the time, that I called the DJ. (You could do that in 1989.) I pressed him as to why they were playing this song at all, since it didn't appear on any charts that I knew of. After a few minutes of hemming and hawing, he explained that Sunny Joe White owned the radio station. 'Nuff said!
If you've got the stomach for it, there's an audio clip posted here.
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eriejwg
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The only Sunny Joe White I knew of was a PD/DJ in Boston.
I'm guessing he's not the same gentleman as the station
owner you mentioned.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
The only Sunny Joe White I knew of was a
PD/DJ in Boston. I'm guessing he's not the same gentleman
as the station owner you mentioned. |
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Not sure if it's the same person...
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| Not sure if it's the same person... |
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Um, the poster of the YouTube video that you linked to states the following:
Quote:
Former Boston DJ Sunny Joe White released this single independently in 1989. This was the single edit of the song.
(Audio ripped from "Crap From The Past", July 2008) |
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Apparently your audience is doing more than just listening, cftp... :-)
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jimct
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80smuisicfreak, you are 100% correct that "I Go Blind" was the B-side of
"Hold My Hand". I know that you happen to know quite a bit, about both
commercial single releases and discographies. But the reality is that
*radio* doesn't care one iota, about either one of those things. I'd just like
to make the point that, during the promo CD single era, the only way our
radio station would've ever known of "I Go Blind" existing, regardless of
whether it was the stock B-side of a band's hit or not, was 1) If we had
received a copy ourselves (which we never did.) Or 2) The Atlantic record
rep had mentioned "I Go Blind" to us - which he never did. The "Hold My
Hand" P CD S we got only included the one track - not the "I Go Blind" B-
side. Yes, sometimes a label would send us a commercial CD single copy,
if they felt that either a remix/longer version of the "hit" might be of
interest to us, or if an included B-side was getting spins somewhere, be it
in clubs, or a non-Top 40 radio format. But that was not the case with
"Hold My Hand". There was no U.S. commercial CD single made for it. Or,
as Aaron stated, "I Go Blind" did happen to appear on an import CD single.
Over the years, on occasion, a label would send us an import CD single.
But that was not done in this case, either. The first time a copy of the "I
Go Blind" track *ever* entered our station was when we got in our copy of
the "Friends" album, around 10/1995.
My point? Yes, "I Go Blind" was "used" twice, before "Fairweather Johnson"
was released. But, 80smusicfreak, you also added the word "promoted" to
your timeline of events. To me, you using that term is 100% inaccurate.
During the hit run of "Hold My Hand", no one from Atlantic ever either
promoted, or as much as even mentioned "I Go Blind" to us. Not once.
Why would they? Their focus was 100% to promote "Hold My Hand".
Period. How does all that result in the "I Go Blind" track having been
previously promoted to radio?
Yes, until 1972 or so, a good number of promo 45s also included the
same B-side that was found on the commercial single. And, way back
when, radio did end up flipping/making the "non-plug" side the hit, a
decent number of times. Why? Because radio still had access to the B-side
audio. But, by the mid-70's, 98% of promo 45s now had the "plug side"
appear on both sides, usually in mono/stereo form. That meant the stock
B-sides of songs stopped entering the station, in 45 form, entirely (unless
a label happened to send us stock 45 copies as re-service copies, with a
"Demonstration Copy" sticker affixed, which Columbia and others would
do sometimes.)
The best mid-70s example of a former B-side later becoming a #1 hit was
"Black Water" by the Doobie Brothers. It was initially the flip of their 1974
Top 40 hit, "Another Park, Another Sunday." I knew this because I was in
high school, I bought a stock copy, and I played the flip. But when *radio*
got its "Black Water" promo 45 in early 1975, to them, the song was
making its first appearance on 45. How could that be radio's perception?
Because 1974 promo 45s of "Another Park...." had mono/stereo versions
of the A-side on it - so "Black Water" had been completely omitted to
radio then. By the time "Black Water" was finally put out on a promo 45,
the hit "What Were Once Vices..." LP had already been out for many
months, and the song had gotten solid AOR play in '74. Many in Top 40
radio did have some familiarity with the track, by then. But I always found
*very* few music collectors working in radio over the years (like I was). As
a result, I'm sure no one at the station said back in 1975, "Why are they
releasing 'Black Water' as a 45 again?" Because none of them ever knew it
was an earlier single's B-side. Although this scenario was 20+ years
before the "I Go Blind" situation, their circumstances here are somewhat
similar, from a "radio had no idea of a song's previous, stock B-side"
backstory.
I just can't emphasize enough how narrow-focused/on point the record
labels always were with us. They would *only* discuss the label's top
priority songs for us to add that week - ones they'd already provided us
with copies of, obviously - B-sides just never came up. And if a label isn't
"working us" on a song, we're not even thinking about it. Therefore, as the
"Hold My Hand" B-side, "I Go Blind" received NO promotion at that time.
We had no copy of it. Atlantic couldn't care less about it. End of story. And
neither did Reprise, in '95. Aaron also is correct when he mentions that
"Good Intentions" by Toad The Wet Sprocket was both the P CD S issued,
and was the track they worked to Top 40 radio from the "Friends"
soundtrack.
Edited by jimct on 26 November 2013 at 7:04pm
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aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513
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| Posted: 26 November 2013 at 8:05pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
I'm very interested in the run time for the
promo/commercial CD single for Lauryn Hill's "Can't Take My
Eyes Off Of You." The album version runs around 3:40 and
tracks into the next selection. I've seen a video online
that runs around 4:23 or so. The 4:23 or so version is the
one I'm looking for. |
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I have two promo CDs from The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill that never had official, factory pressed counterparts. "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" (which is an unlisted track on the album) has a completely different mix on the promo CD.
The promo CD I have is on a Mitsui Gold CD-R with a generic paper adhesive CD label. It only has one track with an actual run time of 4:37. The other promo CD I have is "Lost Ones." It's on the same Mitsui Gold CD-R with an identical looking paper stick-on label. The track listing on this disc is:
1. Lost Ones (actual 4:24)
2. Can't Take My Eyes Off You (actual 4:36)
This disc also has the same remix of "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" as the 1-track.
Does anyone know why these tracks were never given anything more than the in-house CD-R treatment? It seems odd that they went to the trouble to record and promote to radio a completely remixed version of "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" and yet never released it as a commercial single anywhere in the world.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: late 90’s airplay hits/promo cd singles
