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jimct
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| Posted: 12 April 2014 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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Both sides of this commercial 45, confirmed as Liberty 55672, are
included in the db, so I've coupled both songs' particulars in the same
thread:
Dead Man's Curve: listed time (2:21); actual time (2:39). Deadwax is a
handwritten "LB-1811", followed by "triangle 51279X". Pat's copy of the
45 runs (2:33), so there were clearly two different 45 pressings. The three
mono db CD appearances run closer to my copy than Pat's, at (2:37),
(2:39) and (2:40).
The New Girl In School: listed time (2:35); actual time (2:26). Deadwax is a
handwritten "45-LB-1810-RE2", followed by "triangle-51279". Pat's copy
of the 45 runs :02 longer than mine, at (2:28). The lone mono db CD also
runs closer to my copy, at just (2:22).
Edited by jimct on 12 April 2014 at 4:38pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 13 April 2014 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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I have several stock 45s, all of which are vinyl pressings from RCA Indianapolis. There are two deadwax variations between them, but no significant differences. All deadwax numbers are machine-stamped:
Copy one:
"Dead Man's Curve" (deadwax "LB 1811 2") actual time: 2:34
"The New Girl In School" (deadwax "LB _ 1810 _ RE2") actual time: 2:26
Copy two:
"Dead Man's Curve" (deadwax "LB _ 1811 _ 1") actual time: 2:35
"The New Girl In School" (deadwax "LB 1810 RE3") actual time: 2:26
Analysis:
"Dead Man's Curve": The speeds are virtually identical; one dumps out one second sooner than the other, although the tail ends of both fades are rather abrupt.
"The New Girl In School": there are no discernible mix differences between the RE2 and RE3 cuttings. Speeds are virtually identical.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 14 April 2014 at 3:54am | IP Logged
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Wow... In a case like Jan & Dean's "Dead Man's Curve" where we've now documented commercial 45 pressings for the shorter length at 2:33, 2:34, and 2:35, I think I'd tend to be in favor of "settling" for an aggregate average run time of 2:34. I have to say that as much of a stickler as I am for precise detail, even I would personally have no desire to seek out or custom fade several different audio files of the same song that only differ by one second each! Still, it's fascinating to discover all these pressings with such slight variations and it makes me wonder why there wasn't a more consistent standard. I think I may have posed this question before (if so, I apologize because I can't recall or locate the response offhand), but were manufacturing plants back in the old days tasked with doing their own manual fadeouts for their respective vinyl 45 pressings?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 14 April 2014 at 4:12am
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Hykker
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| Posted: 14 April 2014 at 5:30am | IP Logged
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"New Girl In School" was also issued with a different flip
side on Liberty 55923 according to an old Osborne &
Hamilton price guide. I don't have a copy myself, but I do
remember seeing one in the library at a station I worked at
back in the 70s. According to the book, it was released in
1966.
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jimct
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| Posted: 14 April 2014 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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Steve, the flip side for the Liberty 55923, 1966 45 release was "School Days".
This was the duo's final 45 issued on Liberty.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 14 April 2014 at 7:14pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| ...were manufacturing plants back in the old days tasked with doing their own manual fadeouts for their respective vinyl 45 pressings? |
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Todd, there's no one-size-fits-all answer to that question, but here are two scenarios:
If a company such as Liberty sent a single master tape of "Dead Man's Curve" to, say, Alco Research & Engineering, Shelley Products and RCA Indianapolis, some of those companies were full-service shops, and would do all the processing and pressing, including typesetting and printing the labels (gluing said labels seemed to be optional, in the case of Shelley, lol.) Alco (home of the delta numbers) was not a pressing plant; they did the processing and plating and label typesetting (which were then sent across town to the Monarch plant for pressing.) The mastering engineers at each of those three firms may have had different ideas about how to handle fades. Or speeds. Or sound quality, for that matter. The labels were contracting them to provide services to the best of those companies' abilities, and individual mileage did vary. Keep in mind that those pressing plants or mastering facilities may have been chosen on the basis of costs, proximity to the cheapest shipping options and perhaps even customer service, more than the quality of their finished product. What made economic sense for one independent label may not have for the next.
Other independent labels often contracted with an independent mastering house for all of their mastering needs, and the mastering house then shipped the finish lacquers or metal parts to the individual pressing plants. Philadelphia-based indies such as Cameo and Swan typically sent their tapes to either Reco-Art or Frankford/Wayne for mastering, and the finished parts were then sent to the plants. In the case of Swan, this setup created more uniformity in the product shipped from Monarch in L.A., Mallard in Philadelphia and the RCA plants in Indianapolis and Rockaway. The record's physical composition (and the printed labels) may have varied from plant to plant, but what was in those "She Loves You" grooves was generally the same.
Edited by Yah Shure on 14 April 2014 at 7:15pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 15 April 2014 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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Interesting read... I appreciate your detailed explanation, Yah Shure.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 17 September 2022 at 6:23pm | IP Logged
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The copy on "Complete Liberty Singles" (my only mono copy) runs about 1.14% slower than my (stereo) copy from "Monster Hits Drag City." I'm wondering which one is closer to right.
I'm also getting the impression of different mixes for the mono and stereo tracks, not just the balance between instruments or eq but background elements or sound FX.
For example, starting on the second verse (about 1:11) it seems like there are horns in the stereo mix that I'm not detecting in the mono mix.
Something weird happens at 1:22, too: suddenly my two versions "snap" to identical until the harp glissando at 1:33.
Putting the stereo, folded down, in the left channel, and the mono in the right, it sounds for all the world like the harp strums from the left to the right channel. This is a result of the harp running down the scale in the stereo mix before running back up, and this slide down is missing from the mono mix. It makes the glissando start about a second earlier in the stereo mix.
Swerving noises are different starting about 2:03, starting in the stereo mix slightly earlier than in the mono mix. It's possible it's the same loop of effects, just started a second or two earlier in the stereo mix than the mono mix but otherwise the same.
The stereo mix starts fading about 2:20 while the mono mix doesn't start fading until about 2:30.
Does anybody else hear these differences? Is there a stereo mix that matches the length of the mono mix?
I'm also curious about the "24 seconds longer" version, if it's the same take / mix.
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http://www.BlackLightRadio.com
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 18 September 2022 at 4:47am | IP Logged
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To NightAire (Gene):
Quite a few of those classic Jan & Dean singles have
(more-than-subtle) differences between the mono and the
stereo versions.
The mono singles were painstakingly mixed for AM airplay
by world-class engineers like Bones Howe & Lanky
Linstrot, while the stereo versions at the time were
probably somewhat of an afterthought.
Although in the case of "Dead Man's Curve", I believe
that was an LP cut (from 'Drag City' album) that was
reworked when the label realized it had hit potential.
Andy
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TallPaulInKy
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| Posted: 03 October 2023 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
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AndrewChouffi wrote:
Although in the case of "Dead Man's
Curve", I believe that was an LP cut (from 'Drag City'
album) that was reworked when the label realized it had hit
potential. |
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Don't think so Andy, the album version has different lyric
not on any single version. So Jan & Dean or at least Jan
had to be involved.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 04 October 2023 at 4:38am | IP Logged
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Yes, we're in total agreement TallPaul!
That's why I used the word "reworked", as opposed to simply
"remixed" to describe the updated version.
Andy
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Topic: Jan & Dean - Dead Man’s/New Girl...
