Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Melanie - Lay Down (Candles In The Rain)

Active Topics

Memberlist

Help

Chat Board
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board

Topic: Melanie - Lay Down (Candles In The Rain)

Author

Message

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 17 April 2015 at 10:28pm \| IP Logged

I was highly suspicious about the CD version that runs :13 longer than the 45 and LP version, and so I did some comparisons between the copy on "Have A Nice Day" and a nice dub of the 45 on YouTube by WABCRADIO77. The two sources are identical up until 3:26. At this point, the CD version slows down slightly in pitch, and Melanie's vocals are slightly different.

- Starting at 3:28, Melanie's vocals sound double tracked in places on the CD, but they sound single-tracked on the 45.
- At 3:31, Melanie's vocals are different. On the CD, you clearly hear her sing "let your white bird smile up." On the 45 at this same point, she doesn't quite sing the words "white" and "smile" so you only hear the choir at this point.
- At 3:35/3:35, the CD version has Melanie singing "stand their ground ohhhhhh you gotta." On the 45, there is no "you gotta" overlapping this section.

To my ears, it sounds like the CD version has her lead vocal doubled during this section, whereas it's only single-tracked on the 45.

Does anyone know if the actual 45 version is on CD? I can tell you for sure the following CDs do NOT have the 45 version:

Have A Nice Day Vol. 3
AM Gold 1970 Vol. 2
Superhits - 1970
Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 2
Singers And Songwriters: 1970-1971
Woodstock Rock
Rock On 1970: In The Summertime
Only Rock & Roll 1970-1974
Freedom Rock

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

eriejwg
MusicFan

Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3509

Posted: 20 April 2015 at 11:30am \| IP Logged

Rock & Roll Relix 1970-1971 (my source) has what appears
to be the LP version.

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 20 April 2015 at 2:12pm \| IP Logged

Thanks, John. I wanted to reiterate that I do not know for sure what
version appears on all of the CD sources, as I do not have a vinyl LP to
compare. It's possible that they are all "neither" versions on CD, but
hopefully someone can chime in who has the vinyl LP.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

davidclark
MusicFan

Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1099

Posted: 20 April 2015 at 7:56pm \| IP Logged

great catch, Aaron. I too can hear the differences starting where you
point out, especially the "noohhhhhh" on the 45 vs. the "noohhhhhh"
with the "you gotta" overlapping on my CD version.

I found this on Youtube, which given the pops and ticks, could very
well be a dub of the LP (including the prior song on the LP "Candles
In The Rain").

YouTube
link

The end of This matches the version I have on CD (with the
"noohhhhhh" and the "you gotta" overlapping), so very likely we may
have a case where the 45 is not on CD and all CD appearances (that
run the correct length) are the LP version.

I don't even hear the solo "noohhhhh" anywhere in the complete
session!

Wonder if the tail end of the 45 could be successfully tagged onto the
end of the LP version to create the 45?

__________________
dc1

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 20 April 2015 at 8:41pm \| IP Logged

David, I also noticed that the "complete session" version running 7:39 has the overlapping "you gotta" vocal. I'm wondering if the Rhino version on Have A Nice Day may have been pulled from that tape and faded early in an attempt to create the correct length. At least it would explain why the song runs :13 too long.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

MMathews
MusicFan

Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978

Posted: 16 October 2016 at 3:20pm \| IP Logged

I missed this thread last year so I had no idea until now
the 45 version is yet unreleased on CD, I assumed the LP
had the same mix.

On my way to the youtube video to hear it, I ran across
this 1970 live performance on a Dutch TV show, complete
with the Edwin Hawkins Singers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ52lk9wjZI

The performance is fabulous, and not only did they NOT
make it shorter to fit on the show, but rather they
perform nearly the entire thing as heard in the long
session. It runs about 6:20 or so.

The only odd thing for me is the audience. It's not the
groovy hippie crowd this song was aimed at, they are
older conservative looking folks like you'd expect to see
on Ed Sullivan in the early 60s...yet..they clap along.
Enjoy.

edtop40
MusicFan

Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4996

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 3:43pm \| IP Logged

i have the correct 45 version of 'lay down (candles in the
rain)' on cd from somewhere....let me know if anyone would
like a copy for your review...

__________________
edtop40

eriejwg
MusicFan

Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3509

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 4:29pm \| IP Logged

Ed, I would like to hear a digital copy to compare with
a 45 dub I have.

eriejwg
MusicFan

Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3509

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 5:03pm \| IP Logged

Thanks, Ed for file. Your copy matches the 45 dub I have
perfectly.

Is the correct 45 version on an import somewhere?

Brian W.
MusicFan

Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 6:43pm \| IP Logged

I also have the correct 45 version from a
1988 Japanese Melanie CD. Sound is a little
lackluster and it could use a re-EQ, but it's
from tape.

crapfromthepast
MusicFan

Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2239

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 9:21pm \| IP Logged

The oldest CD I have the song on is Sessions/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Freedom Rock (1987). The old TV ads told you to "Turn it up!" But in this case, "turn it down!" This track sound dreadful here, with a remarkably high-generation tape source. It's the LP version (3:47), if you can hear anything through the muck. The same analog transfer is used on:

Madacy's Rock On 1970 In The Summertime (1998; digitally exactly 1 dB louder)

Modestly better is the Silver Eagle's mail-order 3-CD Woodstock Rock (1989). It sounds like the same source tape as Freedom Rock, but has a little more high end, despite having some evidence of noise reduction (high end disappears on the fade). It, too, is the LP version (3:47). The same analog transfer is used on:

JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll 1970-1974 (1994)

Infinitely better is Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 3 (1990), which sounds sparkly clean compared to the two muddy earlier versions. It runs longer than the LP version (3:59), with a fade that starts later than the fade on the LP version, and (obviously) ends later than the fade on the LP version. I did a side-by-side comparison of this to Woodstock Rock, and the versions are indeed the same all the way to the end (at 3:47), including all the vocals. The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 4 1970 (1990), later repackaged as AM Gold Vol. 2 1970 (1990) with identical mastering; both shorten the fade to 3:52
Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 2 1970-1971 (2000; differently-EQ'd digital clone of AM Gold Vol. 2 1970)

There's a different analog transfer on Rhino's cheapie Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 2 (1993). It's the LP version, but running a little short at 3:45. Based only on that length, and my experience with the cheapie Rhino collections, I'd speculate that this is a clone of Rhino's Melanie Best Of, but can't confirm. It sounds really good here - on par with Have A Nice Day, but running only out to 3:45.

My recommendation:

If you want 12 seconds more of the LP version, go with Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 3 (1990).
If you want the LP version and nothing more, you probably want Rhino's Melanie Best Of, which should be easier to find than Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 2 (1993).
I don't think the 45 version exists on CD.

__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.

Search for other posts by crapfromthepast

crapfromthepast
MusicFan

Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2239

Posted: 01 December 2016 at 9:35pm \| IP Logged

I gave a listen to the 45 version on YouTube. I didn't do a detailed A/B comparison, just listened by ear.

At 3:28 on the LP version, I don't hear anything explicitly slowing down.

At 3:28 on the 45 version, it sounds like it speeds up a bit. Since the tempo increases pretty dramatically over the course of the song, maybe the 45 cut out a portion of the performance and cut to a later portion of the performance?

__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.

MMathews
MusicFan

Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978

Posted: 02 December 2016 at 5:38pm \| IP Logged

Ron, I was wondering that too, if the 45 had an edit to a later portion of the chorus. So I sync'd the 45 with the LP version.
I found that the 45 is identical to the LP mix until that 3:27 point where a splice happens on the 45. The single tracked vocal part on the 45 fade is the exact same audio/backing as the LP, just with mix difference. So, no it was taken from a later portion, same portion mixed differently.
As for being on CD, sounds from the above post from Ed and Brian that appeared somewhere .. but I guess not in the U.S. ?

crapfromthepast
MusicFan

Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2239

Posted: 02 December 2016 at 5:59pm \| IP Logged

Weird!

I wonder why Buddah Records would have gone to the trouble of making such a minor tweak, which essentially went undetected for 46 years!

__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 02 December 2016 at 7:56pm \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

At 3:28 on the LP version, I don't hear anything explicitly slowing down.

It doesn't slow down drastically, but it's maybe a 1/2% slower at the splice. If you're not listening carefully, you may not catch it.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

Brian W.
MusicFan

Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2507

Posted: 05 December 2016 at 2:33am \| IP Logged

You know, I was wrong... after listening to the 45 on
YouTube, that version I have on the 1988 Japan CD is
NEITHER the 45 version or the LP version. It appears to be
an alternate mix running 3:47. Damn it.

Vocals on this alternate are mixed very differently... you
can barely tell the vocals are double tracked until the
second line. In fact, I don't think the double tracking
starts until, "We bled inside each other's wound," and even
then the harmony vocal is much lower in volume.

Edited by Brian W. on 05 December 2016 at 2:46am

eriejwg
MusicFan

Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3509

Posted: 05 December 2016 at 9:55am \| IP Logged

Now, the question is, what is the source of Ed's 45
version?

Is it the same as Brian's? Is it a mint 45 dub?

MMathews
MusicFan

Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978

Posted: 05 December 2016 at 5:14pm \| IP Logged

Oh, Ed sent me his file that he thought was the 45
version - turns out it was actually the LP version.

Brian, the mix you are describing may be the actual mix
that was first released on the "Four Sides Of Melanie"
vinyl LP set - but faded to the LP/45 length. The long
version included on the Buddha CD was edited/modified...I
never had time to A/B them to see what they changed but
it's not the same as the vinyl version.
When I have time I will report here about it.
For starters though, I can tell you the original mix had
her single-tracked vocal throughout the last chorus, not
just after 3:28.
MM

MM

Edited by MMathews on 14 December 2016 at 2:58am

eriejwg
MusicFan

Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3509

Posted: 05 December 2016 at 5:51pm \| IP Logged

Crap. Guess I shouldn't overwritten the 45 dub I had
received a long time ago with Ed's file. And, I should
have listened closer.

Anyone have a mint 45 dub? :)

MMathews
MusicFan

Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978

Posted: 14 December 2016 at 2:57am \| IP Logged

Alrighty I gathered all the various sources for this song
and carefully compared them.

There are 4 versions. In order of first appearance:

1) 45 version , i presume was first. Runs (3:47)
or (3:48) depending on what pressing you have.
As described above, has single-tracked vocal after 3:27.
I thought there was a splice, but after closer
examination I think it was just mixed that way in the
first place. 45's were pressed in mono and stereo. The
mono is a just a fold-down of the stereo 45, no other
difference.

2) 1970 LP version from the "Candles In The Rain"
album..runs (3:47) same mix as the 45 until about 3:27
where there is definite splice and she becomes double-
tracked, and the backing women in the choir are also
turned up louder. Since the LP came after the 45, I guess
maybe they felt the ending needed "beefing up" somehow.

3) 1972 Long version from "Four Sides Of Melanie"
2-LP set. Runs (7:49) This was a different mix from
the 45/LP. In the choruses of the 45/LP Melanie sings
lead over the second half of each chorus, but in this mix
she is not heard in any chorus until about 3:25. Instead,
each chorus has the guys in the choir potted up in the
center. Also, in the 45/LP her harmony vocal starts at
the beginning of the first verse and is very loud. But in
this mix her harmony doesn't fade up til the 2nd line and
remains very low in the mix throughout, disappearing at
times. If you have never heard the long version on the
vinyl album, you can here it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUf2Dh22h0s

The above video shows the import RCA Best-of CD that
contains this mix in its original form and the audio is
from that CD, although be warmed the sound is flat and
somewhat shrill. I don't recall the vinyl LP sounding
like that. But I no longer own it so I can't verify that.
Which brings us to our 4th version...

4) The long version first heard in the CD "Beautiful
People: The Greatest Hits Of Melanie" - runs (7:39).
This version was never heard prior to this CD to my
knowledge. It's essentially the LP version but doesn't
fade, then cuts to the "Four Sides" mix after the end
chorus, then has a small portion of that mix edited out,
but then an additional section spliced IN that never
appeared anywhere else before. In the "Four Sides" mix
Melanie never sings the lead refrain over the choir after
about 4 minutes... the entire rest of it she just sings
lots of "oh's" and "doot-doot-do's. But this mix has a
section badly spliced in at 4:18 and runs to 4:45 where
they turn up Melanie for one more repeat chorus then it
splices back the "Four Sides" mix and runs to the end.

Now, I sort of doubt that the compilation producer for
the Buddha CD created this mix/edit intentionally. I
theorize that this tape was already in there somewhere -
in fact, I think it was the tape that Rhino had for HAND
and they faded it, thus creating the LP-version-with-
long-end we heard on their CD. That's my theory anyway.

Also, one little bonus I discovered. After DAYS of re-EQ-
ing.. I found that because Melanie is single-tracked in
the ending choruses of the "Four Sides" mix, you can take
that audio and splice it onto the end of the LP version
and get the 45 version. It just happened that that
section was mixed exactly the same as the 45 fade. But
the EQ's were dramatically different so this surgery is
not recommended for the faint of heart.

MM

Page of 2 Next >>

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.0625 seconds.