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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 November 2005 at 4:52am | IP Logged
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Yeah, I've read on another bulletin board that it's been the #1 requested song on New York's Z100 for two or three weeks, but they're barely giving it any spins.
And just within the past year or so Billboard's Fred Bronson has said in his column that he still thinks radio plays what people want to hear!
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2005 at 10:56am | IP Logged
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Yeah, right. Start taking a survey. I bet a majority of people say they are not satisfied with what radio is playing. Hell, most people have iPods & iTunes now, so they can listen to whatever they want whenever they want.
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Todd Ireland
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Brian W. wrote:
Yeah, I've read on another bulletin board that it's been the #1 requested song on New York's Z100 for two or three weeks, but they're barely giving it any spins.
And just within the past year or so Billboard's Fred Bronson has said in his column that he still thinks radio plays what people want to hear! |
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Fred Bronson is a good guy, but he is a Billboard employee. Part of his job description is to defend all of Billboard's charts and policies no matter how flawed and out-of-whack they really may be.
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aaronk
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I don't blame the people who put the charts together. I blame all the programmers who have turned radio into an uncreative numbers game. Take the top tested songs and play them over and over again. If it's not a top testing song, don't play it at all. After all, who wants to hear more than 300 records??? In the case of top 40 radio, who wants to hear more than 50 records???? It's disgusting.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 04 December 2005 at 2:39am | IP Logged
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Helo again Brian!
I was reading your extensive list of Madonna's 45's on CD again and thought of a couple other notes:
Keep It Together:
Thought it would be interesting to mention that even though the single remix was indeed the lead track on the commercial 45, CD and cassette singles, the version that was used for airplay and was mostly heard on American Top 40 was the 7" Remix, much like the album version except for some remix elements and an acapella ending (available on the US promo CD PRO-CD-3791).
Holiday (edit): I believe the promo CD that edtop40 claims has the original edit is the one issued in the UK, the catalog number is SAM800. As a member of the Madonna Catalog you can view the scans there or I can send them to you if you'd like.
You'll See:
The live track included on both USA CD singles was not "Why's It So Hard" but "Live To Tell" (from "Who's That Girl" tour).
"Why's It So Hard" live from the Girlie Show was included on the US and UK CD maxi singles for the song "I'll Remember".
Johann
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 04 December 2005 at 3:07am | IP Logged
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elcoleccionista wrote:
You'll See: The live track included on both USA CD singles was not "Why's It So Hard" but "Live To Tell" (from "Who's That Girl" tour).
Johann |
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By golly, you're right. Thanks.
elcoleccionista wrote:
Holiday (edit): I believe the promo CD that edtop40 claims has the original edit is the one issued in the UK, the catalog number is SAM800.
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I know, but there's no info on Madonna Catalog as to whether it's the original edit, the "You Can Dance" remix edit, or the Q-sound version.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 04 December 2005 at 11:00am | IP Logged
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You're right, but your clue to which version it is, is in the printing on the CD itself.
You'll notice it's labelled simply (edit) just like the original edit was called. The 1987 remix was called single edit.
Also, on the production part there are no remix credits, just the original producers are mentioned.
Sure, considering how inaccurately these things are sometimes listed, it could have easily been overlooked. But I think it was correctly done here.
I guess it makes sense that it would contain the original edit since it was the promo companion to the reissued commercial 7", 12" and CD versions (the Holiday collection), all of which have either the original full lengh or edit versions.
At some point I owned (and sold) the reissued 12" clear picture disc and can confirm it also had the original edit.
I also remember seeing this promo CD at Ebay and the seller specifying as an added value feature it was the edit version included.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 02 June 2006 at 1:41am | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
Cherish– The 45 and cassette single was an edit of the extended dance remix, called the "Fade" version. This 4:02 edit is indistinguishable from the LP version until the a capella break – there isn't one! The same lines are still sung – "Give me faith, give me joy, my boy, I will always cherish you" -- but they're now accompanied by instrumentation. There's also a strange synthesizer "howl" at about 3:42.
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Brian, there are ways to tell the album version from the 45 before the acapella break. They ARE very subtle:
The synthesizer that comes in at 2:26 on both versions was slightly put more "upfront" on the 45 version if you listen carefully. It is more subdued on the album version.
Another difference is that in the 45 version, Madonna's vocals were taken off some of the reverb that the album version has. Easiest way to tell is to listen to her very first line "Cherish, Cherish...".
There is more "vocal delay" effect on the album version, it even has a slight left to right panning effect across channels.
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torcan
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Brian W. wrote:
True Blue – There's some confusion regarding the 45 version of this song, since Joel Whitburn lists its running time as 3:59, which is the running time of the LP edit on the promo 45. |
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Even though Whitburn's books state they are based on commercial copies, I'm willing to bet he's been able to acquire most of the promos as well.
Quote:
Oh Father – The U.S. 45 picture sleeve is very rare for some reason.
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Actually there was never a US picture sleeve for "Oh Father". One of Whitburn's books mistakenly indicated there was, and he later admitted it was a mistake in an e-mail to me several years ago.
Madonna did have two rare sleeves - "Borderline", which was a poster sleeve, and "Keep it Together", which had limited distribution in 1990 as labels basically ditched the picture sleeve early that year.
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 23 June 2006 at 11:48am | IP Logged
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For whatever reason, the "Dress You Up" sleeve is also less common/more valuable...
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torcan
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cmmmbase wrote:
| For whatever reason, the "Dress You Up" sleeve is also less common/more valuable... |
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You're correct in that "Dress You Up" is also a less-common sleeve. I read that Madonna wasn't happy with the picture on it and it was pulled, so there are a lot fewer copies of it out there than most of her other sleeves. I don't think it's a rare as some people have said though - I've come across it on e-bay and other places quite frequently - a lot more frequently than "Borderline" or "Keep it Together".
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Brian W.
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torcan wrote:
Actually there was never a US picture sleeve for "Oh Father". One of Whitburn's books mistakenly indicated there was, and he later admitted it was a mistake in an e-mail to me several years ago.
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I've discussed this with Steven Caraco, who runs MadonnaCatalog.com, and told him I swear I remember seeing a 7-inch with picture sleeve for "Oh Father" in Tower Records in Seattle back in the day. He said other people have told him they've seen one too, but that he's never found one.
I suppose I should change the discography, though.
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elcoleccionista
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Brian W. wrote:
La Isla Bonita – 45 was the "True Blue" LP version. However, the Japanese "CD Single Collection" is the only place to get its original B-side, the Instrumental Remix, on CD.
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There were two so labeled "Instrumental" versions of this song, available on different CD's.
The B side Brian quotes (4:20), was named "Instrumental" on that Japan box set, and is simply an early fade of the full length "Instrumental" version (5:20), which can easily be found on compact disc on all pressings of the "Super Mix" EP, originally released in Japan and later in Australia.
I don't own the USA commercial "Isla" 7" single anymore, so I don't remember how it was labeled there, but on the UK 7" the B side was more accurately labeled as "Instrumental Edit".
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 03 September 2006 at 10:18pm | IP Logged
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Something occured to me tonight that may --just may-- rock the foundation for those of us fussy enough to care about an extra second here and there.
The songs that fade out on the Like A Virgin LP slightly bleed into the tracks that follow them. I am unable to check, but has anyone A/B'ed the singles from this album to see if any of the fades contain anything that may be hidden underneath other tracks on the full length release?
More importantly, did any of that make any sense whatsoever?
I suppose the songs to check would be:
Like A Virgin / Stay
Material Girl / Pretender
Dress You Up / Shoo-Bee-Doo
Angel's single version is an early fade of the LP.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 03 September 2006 at 11:04pm | IP Logged
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Some corrections and commentary. Great thread, btw. :)
Brian W. wrote:
| Holiday – To my knowledge, this LP Edit of "Holiday" has appeared on CD only once: on the 1997 Japanese Madonna CD Single Collection, ... |
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As previously mentioned, the original 45 edit appears on a 1991 promotional CD single.
Brian W. wrote:
| Into the Groove – The single version of "Into the Groove" was actually a demo that was rush-released as a single... |
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Actually, the demo version is heard in the film Desperately Seeking Susan, the single is a different spruced up version.
Brian W. wrote:
The original mix of the song has been issued on a U.S. BackTrax CD single, coupled with "Dress You Up." It can still be found cheaply (WEA, UPC 075992-18782-4). It has also been issued as a CD single in the UK, which is still in print (WEA, UPC 075992-03522-4), though an older German CD with a different track lineup also exists (WEA UPC 0 7599-21141-2 7). It's also available from Japan on both the "CD Singles" box and the still-in-print 5-inch maxi-single called "Material Girl, Angel and Into the Groove" (catalog WPCP-5063, no UPC on my copy).
(But it made its very first CD appearance way back in 1985 on the German CD version of the "Like a Virgin" album, sandwiched between "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" and "Dress You Up," Sire 925181-2, UPC 0 7599-25181-2 3) |
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The majority of the CD sources for the original version feature inferior sound quality to the Japanese release, which also is the only source for the ENTIRE fade of the song. After the fourth repeat of the chorus on the fade she sings "yeah..." and the track goes instrumental. This is how the song appears on all original vinyl pressings, but for unknown reasons CDs not pressed in Japan fade between 5-10 seconds prior to this.
Brian W. wrote:
| Open Your Heart – 45 was the "True Blue" LP version. |
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Interestingly, the US sleeve incorrectly gives remixing credits to the duo responsible for the international single remix Thompson/Barbiero.
Brian W. wrote:
| Like a Prayer – Outside of Japan, this was Madonna's first commercial CD single. The 45 and cassette single used a slight remix by Shep Pettibone, called the "7-inch Version," which shortened the intro, subdued the chorus slightly, and added some instrumentation, including a screaming electric guitar on the fadeout. |
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Must be said: Guitar courtesy of Prince.
Brian W. wrote:
| Express Yourself – Again remixed by Shep Pettibone, who added some instrumentation, extra echo to the vocals, and omitted the line "so you can respect yourself" on the fadeout. |
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Another Prince related note: the 'strings' added throughout all of Shep's remixes sound as though they were lifted directly from his mix of Prince's Hot Thing.
Brian W. wrote:
| Vogue– Originally slated as the B-side of "Keep It Together" before Warner execs heard it and demanded it be released on its own, the 45 version, dubbed the "Single Version," had a completely different intro than the "I'm Breathless" LP and video mixes. Gone was the slow buildup in favor of an immediate dance beat and an added "Whoo" and "What are you lookin' at?" from Madonna that at the time was on no other version of the song. |
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The single version is actually the original version of the song. The video version used an edited intro from the Bette Davis Dub. The single preceded the I'm Breathless album by nearly 2 months and the video "soundtrack" was tacked onto the end of that release.
Brian W. wrote:
| Rescue Me – At first listen, almost anyone would think this single is simply a 4:52 edit of the "Immaculate Collection" LP version, but there are some subtle differences, including different placement of a few sound effects, that reveal this to actually be a separate mix – hence its title, "Single Mix." |
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Near the end, this version also features an extra ad-lib ("I believe!") not on the LP version. This was an obvious reference to Deee-Lite's hit "Power Of Love", sung identically: I believe in the power of love...I believe...
Brian W. wrote:
| Deeper and Deeper – The two-track single in all three configurations (45/cassette/CD) contained a 4:52 edit of the LP version backed with the LP-length Instrumental. It's out of print, but not too hard to find. The more common maxi-single contained the 45 version as well, though not the Instrumental. But if the 45 version is all you're after, it's on her "GHV2—Greatest Hits Vol. 2" CD. |
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The single version is actually a remix by Shep Pettibone, not an edit of the LP version. The most obvious difference is a loud burst of...something...prior to the bridge (and again midway through the bridge). The guitar throughout the choruses is much louder and it sounds as though much of the instrumentation was actually redone (though in a way to sound very similar to the LP)
Brian W. wrote:
| Bad Girl – Madonna's first single to miss the top ten on the Hot 100 since "Holiday" – ouch! Shouldn't have released that "Sex" book a few months earlier, I guess. The two-track single in all configurations contained the 4:38 LP edit b/w the LP version of "Fever," a song which had a video but oddly was never promoted to radio at all. Two-track CD single was UPC 093624-07932-3. |
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Again, slightly remixed...the edit point near the fade adds some kind of rattling/percussion where the cut was made, and repeats this element again 8 bars later.
Brian W. wrote:
| Frozen– The two-track 45, cassette, and CD singles all used the full LP version b/w the LP version of "Shanti/Ashlangi." I think it's still in print. The maxi-singles used an edit of "Frozen," plus remixes. |
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Single and Maxi both use the full LP version. In fact, the only commercial release of the edit is GHV2.
Brian W. wrote:
| Beautiful Stranger – I lean toward the William Orbit Radio Edit being the U.S. "single" version. (As I said, it's the only U.S. vinyl 45 version.) Unfortunately, that version was never issued commercially on CD, only on promos! But it's not that hard to find, for $15 to $25. |
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The William Orbit Radio Edit is on GHV2
Brian W. wrote:
| Don't Tell Me – All two-track configurations were the LP version b/w a remix of the song, the Thunderpuss 2001 Hands In The Air Radio Edit. Still easy to find. |
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Hit version is the Radio Edit that cuts right before the lengthy "strings" ending. On the US promo and import singles.
Brian W. wrote:
| What It Feels Like for a Girl – The U.S. promo CD contained 1. Radio Edit (but of what, I don't know; I assume of the LP version), and 2. Album Version. Take your pick. I tend toward the LP Version as the official "single version," especially since that's what was used on the reissue 45. |
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The Radio Edit is based on the LP version. The intro is shorter and instrumental (it's missing the 'Girls can wear jeans...' bit) and it fades early. I consider this the hit version because it's what radio played.
Brian W. wrote:
| Die Another Day – A 45 was issued for this song, which was the 3:30 Radio Edit (of the LP version) |
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Slight mixing difference, as it is missing some spoken bits during an edit point.
Brian W. wrote:
| American Life – Identical 45 and CD singles were issued, both using the Radio [LP] Edit |
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This is an edit of the Clean LP version.
Brian W. wrote:
| Me Against the Music (Britney Spears featuring Madonna) – There was no two-track commercial issue of this released in the U.S. in any format, but the lead-off track on virtually every CD single and 12-inch vinyl single around the world, including the U.S. maxi-single and promo single, was the 3:44 Video Mix, so that is what I would consider to be the "single version." |
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Video Mix = Album Version (both In The Zone and My Prerogative: The Greatest Hits)
Brian W. wrote:
| Hung Up - Both the initial iTunes digital single and the lead-off track on the US CD maxi-single are the Radio Edit, running an actual 3:22. After the album was released, iTunes deleted the radio edit in favor of the album version and four remix/edits (NONE of which have so far been issued in CD format, even on a promo, damn it!), but I would still consider the Radio Edit to be the "45 version." |
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The US Radio Edit is unique in that after the last chorus it goes instrumental. While it runs the same length, the international singles all feature continued singing ("every little thing, every little thing...") over the final moments of the fade.
Edited by Underground Dub on 03 September 2006 at 11:12pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 04 September 2006 at 1:35am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the notes, Underground Dub. I'll check out your comments and alter my discography accordingly.
But regarding your comment re: Into the Groove...
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| the Japanese release, which also is the only source for the ENTIRE fade of the song. |
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Nope... the German CD of "Like a Virgin" has the entire fadeout (the last half second of which is actually at the beginning of "Dress You Up," after the track marker), and in my opinion has better, cleaner sound quality than the later Japanese release.
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Underground Dub
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| Posted: 04 September 2006 at 7:36am | IP Logged
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I'm sure the quality issue is a matter of opinion, but at least it's all on one track on the Japanese releases, LOL.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 September 2006 at 10:22am | IP Logged
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Brian W. wrote:
Nope... the German CD of "Like a Virgin" has the entire fadeout (the last half second of which is actually at the beginning of "Dress You Up," after the track marker), and in my opinion has better, cleaner sound quality than the later Japanese release.
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I just checked my German CD single of "Angel/Into The Groove," and the run time is exactly (4:44), although the printed time says (4:40). If you crank the volume up really loud, you can hear the "yeah" and a couple seconds of instrumental on the CD single, too.
You are correct that the high-end is slightly dull on this CD single. A couple years ago, I made my own "remastered" version of this song to fix the sound quality.
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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If I understand correctly Aaron, and by "high-end" you mean the treble is weak, that is a fact for most of the 1995 reissued 12" singles on CD in Europe.
I was HIGHLY disappointed when I bought them back then, in fact sold all of them except "Causing A Commotion" and "Open Your Heart".
Off the top of my head, they are still the only releases with versions exclusive to them, which were originally available on vinyl or tape only. (for example, the "Fever" German CD from the euro catalog, with its unique "Edit Two" wouldn't count, since singles were by then released on compact disc, too).
With that 1995 reissued catalog, I remember thinking "who was in charge of this project??", for example the infamous "Borderline" CD, where its contents are not faithful to the original european 12" single.
I sold the CD years ago, but clearly remember it had listed the correct tracks, but upon playing, surprise...
1. Borderline · U.S. Remix . [plays Album version]
2. Borderline · Dub Remix · [plays New Mix AKA US Remix]
3. Physical Attraction . [plays correctly]
It did not have the "gem" of the 12" single which was the dub, so I kept the vinyl and sold the CD.
A shame not little enough attention is payed to major releases like these, countless times.
Edited by elcoleccionista on 05 September 2006 at 10:43am
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:50am | IP Logged
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By the way, if it helps anybody who is interested in getting some of those mixes from the 1995 reissue CD catalog, there is no need to bother with them unless you are interested in the cover art.
I didn't "lose" any of the versions when I sold most of them, their contents are all available with better sound on other pressings, mainly the typical EP's from Japan.
They have not even gone up in demand and/or price on the collector's market 11 years after.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Madonna - The 45 Versions on CD
