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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 22 April 2006 at 9:56am | IP Logged
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Pat:
You correctly mention that the original 45 and LP version of Neil Diamond's "Walk on Water" both included a (1:37) instrumental ending titled “THEME”. Therefore, shouldn't the 1:37 instrumental portion be figured into the song's overall run time in the database when applicable. (In other words, shouldn't the run time for "Walk on Water" be listed at 4:42 when it includes "THEME", not 3:05?) Or do you not calculate the 1:37 instrumental time because it is usually programmed on CD releases as a separate track?
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 April 2006 at 11:00am | IP Logged
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Todd, the original vinyl LP did not credit "Theme" as a separate track so that is why I consider the LP and 45 length to be (4:42). Subsequent cd releases have been crediting "Theme" to be a separate track so this is a case of what is the correct notation? I arbitrarily have just noted which versions track into "Theme" and which ones don't so that you can make your own decision as to the correct notation.
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 January 2007 at 8:31am | IP Logged
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Since I happen to be doing some 1972 work these days, just to clarify, all 3 of my commercial copies, and both the mono and stereo sides of my promo 45 ALL state "(3:04) Song, (1:38) Instrumental Ending", which added together, equals (4:42). This is the actual time I get for both my stock and mono/stereo DJ 45 sides. Based on Pat's vinyl LP post above, which didn't call the inst. ending "Theme" back then, either, Pat's/Todd's assertion that "Theme" seems to be mainly just some "Johnny come lately" bogus title to justify why the cut # bumps up one number on CD players, when it shouldn't have. All I ever heard on late 1972 radio was the full (4:42) version. I'd say that the "last best chance" to have EVER found a 1972 UNI release with the (3:05) part by itself would've been the mono side of the promo 45, and it's (4:42) there as well (unless, of course, there was a 2nd, different promo 45 released for it). Another possible reason for no "short version" here - Neil's 5-year deal with UNI, signed in '68, was ending in just a few months. And, just as there was back then, a huge bidding war was expected for his services (Columbia eventually won out - Neil going back to where he actually started out, pre-Bang, putting out one rare 1963 45, "Clown Town/At Night".) But it would've been EXTREMELY unlikely that UNI would've wanted to agitate Neil then, during this "courting period", by chopping up his "new masterpiece." ESPECIALLY with UNI in "corporate transition" themselves, launching their then-new "MCA" label, at the start of '73. ("Crocodile Rock" being MCA's 1st 45.) Neil and Elton John were UNI's '71/'72 two main meal tickets. Elton was already locked up by MCA, but Neil (a VERY underrated businessman), thinking ahead, knew he still owed UNI/MCA one more LP. So, to most quickly and easily meet that commitment, he had recorded the live LP "Hot August Night" (recorded 1972), which was already "in the can." It was put out by MCA in early '73, and with that, Neil once again became a "free agent." I at least know my buddy EdisonLite, a huge Neil Diamond fan, will get a kick outta that story! (What can I say? - I read a lot.) :)
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 27 January 2007 at 10:00am | IP Logged
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You're right, Jim, I found that a very interesting story. Also, I didn't know that "Clown Town" (Neil's attempt at writing like Neil Sedaka) was on Columbia. I have it on CD on his box set (where I first discovered it) so I never knew the label. Also interesting and something I never knew was that "Crocodile Rock" was MCA's 1st 45. I only started buying music in August '72 so I never really noticed this. And -- we hear so much about Arista's first single (when Clive Davis repeatedly and mistakenly says it's "Mandy") but we never hear about MCA's 1st single!
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 January 2007 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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First Arista 45: Robby Benson-"A Rock And Roll Song" (Arista 0100)
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jrjr
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| Posted: 27 January 2007 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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1st MCA 45 "Croc Rock" (40000), plain black label,
pre-rainbow 45... What was the LAST 45 on the UNI
label?
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 January 2007 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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Jrjr: The last UNI 45 was UNI 55356: Andy Kim-"Oh What A Day/Sunshine." And if anybody wants to correct Clive Davis, the last Bell 45 was actually a hit, Tony Orlando & Dawn's "Look In My Eyes Pretty Woman" (Bell 45620). "Mandy" was the EIGHTH to the last Bell 45 (Bell 45613), with 45s by Peter Shelley, Suzi Quatro, Lou Rawls, Levine & Brown, Bay City Rollers and Ron Dante issued inbetween the above two. If stuff like this intrigues you, I work very closely with two guys out in Arizona, Tim Warden and Gary Pfeifer, for a non-profit, old music survey repository called www.las-solanas.com/arsa. This site contains plenty of obscure label/title info, which should satisfy inquiries like Edison's and Jrjr's (I'm quite surprised that a few folks here actually seem interested in "label trivia.") We still have lots of work to do on ARSA; nowhere near complete yet, but it's currently by FAR the largest of its kind on the Net. Pat, I ONLY mention this other site so we can keep YOUR one-of-a-kind Board 100% focused on what it is we guys normally do here - examine/investigate/inquire about Top 40 hits. BTW, I recently mentioned off-the-board, to my good friend Brian W., that "Mandy" was the last national #1 BB hit to be issued as a mono 45 - all future #1 BB hits, from then on, were issued as stereo 45s. FYI only - per Clive, that last factoid just seemed to fit in here.....
Edited by jimct on 27 January 2007 at 9:48pm
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: "Walk on Water" - Neil Diamond
