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jebsib
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Hi everyone,
I am throwing this out to you as there are music chart history experts galore on this
site, many of whom have followed the charts for decades.
Billboard currently defaults to "Best Sellers in Stores" when reeling off chart stats
pre-Aug 1958. This however excludes the song's concurrent performances on their
Most Played by Jockeys, Most Played in June Boxes or the vague Top 100.
Sensibly, Joel Whitburn's books use a combination of those pop charts (I think
current policy is that a song's peak position is awarded based on its highest position
on one of those charts.).
However, does anyone know (remember) what the real story was back then?
For example, if I was living in 1956 and wanted to know what the (say) 4th most
popular song was that week... what chart would I consult? Do we know which the
Music Industry used? Or was it just not terribly important to the General Public back
then?
Perhaps this is a question for Paul who has 'friends in high places' :-)
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thecdguy
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I would guess the Top 100, which I think started in late
1955 and ended sometime in 1958. I think that is the
source that Casey Kasem referred to on his show when
giving trivia information from that period. But I guess
it would depend on what part of the industry you were
involved in. I don't think the average music fan would
care too much about what songs had the most airplay or
were played the most in Jukeboxes. Maybe how they sold,
though. Pre-1955 would be interesting to know since there
wasn't even a Top 100 chart at the time.
Edited by thecdguy on 15 December 2020 at 7:55am
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Paul C
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Since I first started with my chronological list of
Top 40 hits thirty years ago*, I have always used the
Best Sellers chart from 1940 until the introduction of
the Top 100 in late 1955 and then the Hot 100 once it
was introduced in 1958. This is also the system Casey
Casem used. (Under this system, this week's two newest
Top 40 hits bring the total to 15,525.)
In his publications, Fred Bronson ignores the Top 100
and uses the Best Sellers chart until the introduction
of the Hot 100.
And as we know, Joel Whitburn uses all charts for the
years that there were multiple singles charts.
*In the late 1980s, I decided that I wanted to own
copies of the actual Billboard singles charts, in part
so that I could make a chronological list of Top 40
hits. I spotted a classified ad in Rolling Stone by a
guy selling (obviously illegal) copies of charts for
sixty cents each. Over the next couple of years, I
purchased 50 years of charts from him (50 X 52 X $.60
= YIKES!!) Just a few months after completing my
collection of charts, Joel started publishing his
books of actual charts, thereby rendering my
collection of contraband charts virtually worthless.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 15 December 2020 at 1:57pm | IP Logged
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I kind of thought it was Honor Roll of Hits.
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Paul Haney
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Joel Whitburn was an active Billboard subscriber at the time and he told me that he loved it when the Top 100 was first
published in November 1955, as it had the most titles. He still followed the other charts, but the Top 100 was his "go-to"
chart for buying records.
Billboard really was more of an "industry" publication at that time and I don't think the general public was really all
that interested. That's why there were separate charts for Best Sellers, Juke Boxes and Disc Jockeys. The Honor Roll of
Hits was really more of a "song" chart, with every available version listed at one position. I think it was more geared
toward the song publishers. The very first Top 100 chart stated that it was a COMBINED TABULATION of Dealer, Disk
Jockey and Juke Box Operator replies. Billboard would later put a disclaimer under the Top 100, stated that it "was NOT
designed to provide tested information for buying purposes. This function is most reliably served by other weekly
features..." So, even Billboard suggested that the other charts were probably more useful.
I'm sure the people that worked at Billboard at the time had no inkling someone would be talking about this stuff nearly 70
years later, LOL!
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Vince
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In the BB magazines from the mid 1950s, it looked like the Honor Roll of Hits was the main chart prior to the Hot 100. Since the Honor Roll of Hits ranked songs rather than records, it does not compare well with the Hot 100. The Top 100 was closest to the Hot 100 in that it ranked sides of records. Before the Hot 100 people in the music industry probably used the chart that covered their area in interest, such as record store owners used the Best Seller chart, radio stations used the Jockey chart, and jukebox operators used the Jukebox chart. The Honor Roll of Hits was used when Billboard listed the top 10 from 5 and 10 years ago, until the early 1960s when they switched to the Best Sellers.
Billboard’s year end recaps before 1958 had each chart having its own year-end ranking. For 1956 and 1957, no ranking was done for the Top 100. The Best Seller recap is used today for years prior to 1958.
The general public before the rock era payed attention to the Your Hit Parade, which was not compiled by Billboard. The Your Hit Parade ranked songs rather than records similar to the Honor Roll of Hits.
Edited by Vince on 15 December 2020 at 11:39pm
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PopArchivist
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Paul Haney wrote:
Joel Whitburn was an active Billboard subscriber at the time and he told me that he loved it when the Top 100 was first
published in November 1955, as it had the most titles. He still followed the other charts, but the Top 100 was his "go-to"
chart for buying records.
Billboard really was more of an "industry" publication at that time and I don't think the general public was really all
that interested. That's why there were separate charts for Best Sellers, Juke Boxes and Disc Jockeys. The Honor Roll of
Hits was really more of a "song" chart, with every available version listed at one position. I think it was more geared
toward the song publishers. The very first Top 100 chart stated that it was a COMBINED TABULATION of Dealer, Disk
Jockey and Juke Box Operator replies. Billboard would later put a disclaimer under the Top 100, stated that it "was NOT
designed to provide tested information for buying purposes. This function is most reliably served by other weekly
features..." So, even Billboard suggested that the other charts were probably more useful.
I'm sure the people that worked at Billboard at the time had no inkling someone would be talking about this stuff nearly 70
years later, LOL! |
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I like to call the era before Billboard in 1958 The Wild Wild West of charts. I've come to appreciate the 1940-1954 book by Whitburn for that reason, that you get the best of the best and don't have to sift through years of charts to get there.
Before 1940, I have my resources including Whitburn's 1900-1940 book and an excel sheet full of rankings.
We take for granted in 2020 how revolutionary the Billboard Hot 100 was in 1958 when it started. Charts back then, while informative were all over the place and not consistent. Paul is right, I don't think anyone cared as much as we do now in that era of charts...
__________________
"I'm a pop archivist, not a chart philosopher, I seek to listen, observe and document the chart position of music."
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Brian W.
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Paul Haney wrote:
Before 1940, I have my resources
including Whitburn's 1900-1940 book and an excel sheet
full of rankings.
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Yeah, I remember eight or ten years ago going to
the downtown Philadelphia Library while visiting a
friend's family (with the friend, of course), and
insisting on time to go alone to the library and make
printouts of the "charts" from their microfilmed mid-
1930s copies of "Metronome" magazine. Obsessed.
Prior to that, I went to the downtown Los Angeles
Library to print out the 1930s monthly record label
bestseller charts from microfilmed copies of
"Variety."
And of course that's where I got all my research for
my '77-'85 "Variety" charts posts, was from the
microfilmed weekly issues at the Long Beach Library.
Took weeks and couple hundred dollars to print all
those out.
I miss libraries.
Edited by Brian W. on 18 December 2020 at 4:43am
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Hykker
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Be thankful you have a decent one nearby. I live in a
rural area, nearest town to me that even has a library
it's only open a couple half-days a week (pre-covid) and
other than mostly best-sellers doesn't have much.
That having been said, give me small town life over the
big city any day of the week!
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jebsib
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| Posted: 18 December 2020 at 6:59am | IP Logged
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It drives me nuts when Billboard (particularly Gary Trust, whom I think is great
BTW) editorializes in a way that suggests music chart history started on
August 1958 with the birth of the Hot 100. It short-changes Elvis, Bill Haley,
etc. and all the insane chart feats of artists like Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby.
One of the things that has been the most enlightening fior me is going through
the Pop Annual books and acknowledging the sheer number of chart songs
that were popular the 50s and 60s, completely forgotten today. I don't mean
just the top 15 hits, but all the way to (sometimes) #135. Hundreds of songs
just lost to time.
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RoknRobnLoxley
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If you go back and look at the headings of the Top 100 and early Hot 100, each originally included the mix of sales, DJ airplay, and jukebox play. It says so right in the heading, note box off to the side. The Top 100 then changed multiple times till it devolved into a tabulation of most popular single sides.
Then along comes the Hot 100 in 1958, and they go right back to basing this chart on all 3, sales, DJ airplay, and jukebox. Till it devolves into sales only, thru May 1959. Then it later becomes something else.
Here are my long-winded notes:
------------
For the first Top 100 chart, in the 11-12-55 issue of Billboard for the survey week ending 11-2-55, the note at the top says:
""" A list of the Top 100 Record Sides in the nation according to a Combined Tabulation of Dealer, Disk Jockey and Juke Box Operator replies to The Billboard’s weekly popular record Best Seller and Most Played surveys. Its purpose is to provide Disk Jockeys with additional programming material and to give trade exposure to Newer records just beginning to show action in the field. """
This note continued thru the 6-17-57 issue for the survey week ending 6-12-57. This was the last week of the Juke Box chart. In the next issue, dated 6-24-57 for the survey week ending 6-19-57, the note at the top of the chart reflected this change, and was revised to read:
""" A list of the Top 100 Record Sides in the nation according to a Combined Tabulation of Dealer unit sales and Disk Jockey replies to The Billboard’s weekly popular record Most Played survey. Its purpose is to provide Disk Jockeys with additional programming material and to give trade exposure to Newer records just beginning to show action in the field. """
The very next week, the 7-1-57 issue for the survey ending the week of 6-22-57, the chart title was changed to The Top 100 Sides, and the note at the top revised again to:
""" A list of the top 100 record sides in the nation according to a tabulation of dealer unit sales. Its purpose primarily is to provide disk jockeys with additional programming material and to give trade exposure to newer sides just beginning to show action in the field. It Is Not A Record Sales Chart. """
And then the very next week, 7-8-57 for the survey week ending 6-29-57, the note at the top was revised again:
""" This is a tabulation of dealer unit sales listed according to the specific side requested by customers. No attempt is made to add sides together to reflect actual record sales. It is therefore a tabulation of sides or songs, and not records. This fact, together with longer four-week survey periods, explains variation between the top 30 sides as reflected in this chart, and top 30 record sellers as reflected in “Best Sellers in Stores”. """
Then the Best Sellers in Stores chart was expanded from 30 to 50 positions, and in the 1-4-58 issue for survey week ending 12-28-57, the note at the top of the Top 100 Sides chart was changed to reflect this:
""" This is a tabulation of dealer individual record sales listed according to the specific side requested by customers. No attempt is made to add sides together to reflect actual record sales. This is, therefore, a tabulation of sides or songs, and not records. This is the reason for any possible variation that occurs between the top 50 sides as reflected in this chart, and the top 50 record sellers as reflected in the “Best Sellers in Stores” chart. """
Now comes the Hot 100 in issue 8-4-58 for the week ending 8-10-58. The note for this chart reads:
""" These 100 sides are listed in order of their national popularity, as determined by weekly local studies prepared for The Billboard in markets representing a cross-section of the United States. These studies take into consideration such factors as disk jockey plays, juke box activity and record sales. """
In the 10-20-58 issue (for the week ending 10-26-58), the Hot 100 note has been tweaked to:
""" These 100 sides are listed in order of their national popularity, as determined by weekly local studies prepared for The Billboard in markets representing a cross-section of the United States. These studies reflect sales registered for each disk up to press time. """
This note continued up thru the 5-11-59 issue (for the week ending 5-17-59). As the Hot 100 too kept on evolving...
That's as far as I went (so far). But as you can see, this Top 100 / Hot 100 thing was an ongoing evolution. In my opinion, the Top 100 1955-58 cannot be dismissed in favor of the Best Sellers chart, as the Hot 100 began by doing exactly what the Top 100 had started out doing, combining 3 charts of sales, airplay, and jukebox into 1 big combo.
Boogaloo...
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jebsib
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Hang on - Does this suggest the Hot 100 was SALES ONLY from late '58 to
some unknown later date?
This is actually quite important. I thought the chart ALWAYS included airplay
on some level.
I recall about 10 years ago learning that the top 50 was SALES ONLY from
5/11/68 till 6/9/73. That floored me at the time.
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Paul Haney
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One of the big problems is that Billboard never really came right out and explained exactly what their formula
was for the Hot 100 chart from 1958 and into the 1980s. You'd actually have to find someone who was working in the
chart department at the time to get the actual story. I'm pretty sure that the "ratios" were constantly changing
over time.
Even from 1968-73, those Top 50 songs were obviously getting airplay along with the sales, even if they weren't
"officially" factored into the rankings.
Edited by Paul Haney on 18 December 2020 at 2:31pm
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Brian W.
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RoknRobnLoxley wrote:
In the 10-20-58 issue (for the week ending 10-26-58),
the Hot 100 note has been tweaked to:
""" These 100 sides are listed in order of their
national popularity, as determined by weekly local
studies prepared for The Billboard in markets
representing a cross-section of the United States.
These studies reflect sales registered for each disk
up to press time. """
the Hot 100 too kept on evolving...
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Hmm. It's interesting that the 10-20-58 issue was the
first issue where the Best Sellers chart wasn't
published. (It ran concurrently with the Hot 100 for
several months, as most of us know.) It doesn't
actually say that it doesn't incorporate airplay, just
that it reflects sales up to press time.
It could just be a way of reassuring readers that the
chart does reflect current sales, since they had ended
the Best Sellers chart with the previous issue.
Edited by Brian W. on 19 December 2020 at 4:16am
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torcan
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Paul Haney wrote:
One of the big problems is that
Billboard never really came right out and explained
exactly what their formula
was for the Hot 100 chart from 1958 and into the
1980s. You'd actually have to find someone who was
working in the
chart department at the time to get the actual story.
I'm pretty sure that the "ratios" were constantly
changing
over time.
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The closest thing I ever found is something I read
online from Paul Grein about 10 years or so ago - and
I couldn't even tell you where I read it, but I did
print out that part of it. Here's what it said:
He stated that each week the chart department would
phone major record stores and ask if certain albums
were selling "very good, good or fair". Points would
be tabulated and the final chart hand positioned by
the chart director. Sometimes positions could be
influenced on whether a group has a hot new single,
just starting a tour or is appearing on national TV
that week (such as "Midnight Special", etc.)
This is in relation to the album chart, but I'd
imagine similar processes were in place for the
singles chart.
So it seems like there was a lot of manipulation and
play in the charts each week.
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RoknRobnLoxley
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Honor Roll of Hits chart, 1945-1963: In the April 24, 1954 Billboard issue, they explain in a 3/4 page article what the Honor Roll of Hits chart was all about (the 5th and last article explaining their various charts). Link, scroll down to page 34:
World Radio History
In their own words (in this article), Billboard considers this their most important chart. As noted in other posts above, this was a "songs" chart, not a "record sides" chart, nor a "record (both sides)" chart. On the 20 position chart "Honor Roll Of Hits/The Nation's Top Tunes" for this issue (page 32), the Top 10 positions do include the best selling record for each song, along with other records available.
In paragraphs 5 & 6, they discuss the 'scientific formula', which is alas still a little vague (no weightings mentioned), but they do state the Honor Roll chart is based on the following 5 charts, which can be found elsewhere in the issue:
--retail: Best Sellers in Stores, 20 positions (page 38)
--juke box: Most Played in Juke Boxes, 20 positions (page 38)
--disc jockey: Most Played by Jockeys, 20 positions (page 38)
--sheet music: Best Selling Sheet Music, 15 positions (page 32)
--radio-tv performance: Tunes with Greatest Radio and Television Audiences, not a positions chart but listed alphabetically, 30 radio songs, then 20 TV songs (page 32)
Contrast this to the Top 100 chart, which began in 1955 as a "record sides" chart, calculated from just 3 charts, record sales, juke box plays, and disc jockey radio plays.
Interesting. I'll have to ponder anew the relative significance of the Honor Roll chart, maybe it deserves more prominence in our collective thoughts, ha. I do have the Record Research DVD-rom of these charts...
Edited by RoknRobnLoxley on 19 December 2020 at 9:35am
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jebsib
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If the Top 100 was just a 'Hot 100' that needed a tighter formula change, I'm
surprised it didn't catch on. So the Hot 100 was essentially just a re-naming /
rebranding. And since the Top 100 (more or less) corresponds with the
beginning of the Rock Era, it's a shame it isn't consulted more. Unless, as Paul
suggested, it was REALLY inaccurate.
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Paul Haney
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torcan wrote:
The closest thing I ever found is something I read online from Paul Grein about 10 years or so ago - and
I couldn't even tell you where I read it, but I did print out that part of it. Here's what it said:
He stated that each week the chart department would phone major record stores and ask if certain albums
were selling "very good, good or fair". Points would be tabulated and the final chart hand positioned by the chart
director. Sometimes positions could be influenced on whether a group has a hot new single, just starting a tour or is
appearing on national TV that week (such as "Midnight Special", etc.)
This is in relation to the album chart, but I'd imagine similar processes were in place for the
singles chart.
So it seems like there was a lot of manipulation and play in the charts each week. |
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For the Hot 100, they called record stores for their list of best selling singles and used radio station playlists to
determine airplay. I was actually at a record store once when Billboard called and the guy gave his Top 10 list for that
week. Obviously, Billboard was relying on the honor system for both those reports and the radio reports (stations were
known to add songs they played either never, or very little). All of this was the reason why we eventually got SoundScan
and BDS (which could also be manipulated, but just not as easily).
A very interesting article appeared in the Billboard issue dated June 9, 1973. It said that a greater emphasis would be
placed on one-stops and radio airplay. So basically, the juke box market was being calculated back-in to the formula! It
said that 50% of the singles market was going to the juke box market, making it "equal in importance to the retailer."
Again, we'll probably never know the actual weights given to each component, let alone if there was any extensive
manipulation of the data. The charts must stand as they were published at the time.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: What REALLY was BB’s Pop Chart pre 1955?
