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Topic: Supremes - Where Did Our Love Go

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 24 January 2021 at 10:13pm \| IP Logged

This post will end up looking a lot like the "Baby Love" and "Come See About Me" posts. There is most definitely a formula to these, much like the Motown hits themselves.

Mono version

In 1964, the hit was the 45 version, and the 45 was mono. (That's true of pretty much every hit in 1964.)

I see that the mono version appeared on CD on Motown's Supremes collection Every Great #1 Hit (1987), Motown's 4-CD Diana Ross box set Forever Diana (1993), Motown's Diana Ross collection The Ultimate Collection (1994), Motown's 2-CD Supremes collection Anthology (1995), and then many others downstream.

I personally have Ultimate Collection (1994), which sounds just fine for this track.

I also have Motown's 2-CD Anthology (1995), which sounds about as good as Ultimate, and is my go-to source for the mono version. The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Rhythm And Blues Collection Vol. 3 1964-1967 (2000) - fades a second or two early, and seems severely compressed around -8 dB (!) Not sure what's happening here; avoid.
Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000)
Rhino's Girl Group Greats (2001)

It's also on Hip-O Select's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 4 1964 Disc 5 (2006).

I'd recommend Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000) if you want a compilation, or the 1995 Anthology if you want a Supremes set.

Stereo

I know of three different stereo mixes for "Where Did Our Love Go".

Stereo 1964 Where Did Our Love Go LP mix

Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the left channel.

It showed up first on CD on a Motown Supremes collection called Compact Command Performances 20 Greatest Hits (1983), as part of Motown's first-ever CD releases. The same analog transfer is used on:

Motown Supremes Greatest Hits Vol. 1 And 2 (1986)
Motown's Motown's Biggest Pop Hits (1986)
Motown's Every Great Motown Song The First 25 Years (1986)
Original Sound's Oldies But Goodies Vol. 8 (1986) - adds noise reduction; avoid
Motown's You Can't Hurry Love (1986)
Motown's Motown 9000 Series (1987)
Motown's 16 #1 Hits From The Early '60s (1987)
Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 9 1964 The Beat Goes On (1988) - left/right channels swapped; makes a very cool descending noise down around -40 dB at the end of the fade, but that's not part of the song
PolyGram's PGD Presents Sound Savers Vol. 1 (1991)

There are different analog transfers on:

Warner Special Products' 2-CD Real Rock (1987) - sounds muddy; avoid
Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 10 1964 (1987) - sound quality comparable to Compact Command Performances
Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1964 (1989) - much better sound than all of the above; brighter EQ, too

I recommend Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1964 (1989) for this mix.

Stereo 1967 Greatest Hits LP mix

Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the right channel.

A YouTube video shows this version as being on the 1973 Anthology LP, with the silver cover.

I have three different analog transfers for this mix:

Motown/Silver Eagle's 3-CD Motown 25th Anniversary (copyright 1983)
Motown's 2-CD Supremes Anthology (1986)
Motown's Motown Year By Year 1964 (1995) - extends about 8 beats longer than the above two

I recommend Motown's Motown Year By Year 1964 (1995) for this mix.

Stereo 2003 The No. 1's album mix

Suha Gur remixed all the Supremes tracks on The No. 1's (but not the Diana Ross solo tracks).

German version

I'm not sure when the Supremes rerecorded their tracks in German. It's on Motown Around The World (1987).

I will edit this initial post as needed to incoporate any additional info that turns up downstream in this thread.

Edited by crapfromthepast on 24 January 2021 at 10:14pm

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davidclark
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Posted: 26 December 2022 at 7:28pm \| IP Logged

I also believe I hear an extra handclap in the mono that is either not in or totally
mixed out of the stereo. It starts at 0:04.

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LunarLaugh
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Posted: 04 April 2023 at 7:18am \| IP Logged

Yes, the mono mix does contain extra claps on the downbeat that aren't in the stereo mixes.

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davidclark
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Posted: 06 April 2023 at 3:46am \| IP Logged

Lunar, you are the first person to support my hearing that extra or mixed way
up handclap overdub. No-one else has. thank YOU!

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MMathews
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Posted: 06 April 2023 at 3:01pm \| IP Logged

Wow I never knew about the added hand claps in the mono.
There's just new info to be learned here all the time!

LunarLaugh
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Posted: 06 April 2023 at 3:35pm \| IP Logged

It's not easy to spot in the mono as they mix in with the
'stomps'.

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LunarLaugh
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Posted: 19 January 2025 at 4:50pm \| IP Logged

Ron,

I re-listened to the 1964 Motown Year By Year disc and I believe that "Where Did Our Love Go" might actually be a vintage alternate mix that is close but not identical to
the Greatest Hits mix. The reverb on the introduction claps seems to be just a little different and the stereo separation isn't as wide as it is on the other appearances
of this mix (such as the 80s Anthology 2-disc set). The backup vocals are also just a little bit lower in the mix. This may account for the longer fade.
Perhaps this was the penultimate mix H-D-H made just before their master mixdown for Greatest Hits.

This series seemed to favor pulling some vintage unused mixes for a handful of songs so I don't think it would be too out of character.

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mjb50
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Posted: 21 January 2025 at 9:18pm \| IP Logged

I agree about the Motown Year By Year mix.

Also, what Ron is calling the 1967 Greatest Hits mix I think actually debuted on the 1966 compilation LP The Motown Sound: A Collection of 16 Big Hits vol. 5. The 1983 digital mastering has a loud click in the fadeout, at 2:26.

The same mix appears on the following two CDs with no click, but mastered 1% slow, and with the very beginning not trimmed, so you hear a split-second of airy reverb on the left before anything else:

Glory Days of Rock 'N' Roll: No. 1 Hits (2001)
Body and Soul: Battle of the Groups: The Ladies (2006)

One feature of this mix is that at about 2:23 when the instruments drop out and you just hear the backing "baby baby", the claps (suspended boards being stomped on, actually) pan from left to right instead of just staying on the left. Then when the drums resume, they're very much like on the Motown Year By Year mix: loud and panned pretty hard to the right, with no echo in the left channel.

OldiesLover
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Posted: 22 January 2025 at 8:55am \| IP Logged

I had always heard that Motown just had the night engineers
mix the stereo versions. I don't know if that is true or
not but maybe one of you can comment on that.

Steve

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 24 January 2025 at 10:20pm \| IP Logged

Revised to include more discs (I think I compared 58 of them!), and recommendations that have evolved a bit.

Mono version

There's only one mono mix. Thank goodness. (See below for details regarding the five different stereo mixes!)

In 1964, the hit was the 45 version, and the 45 was mono. (That's true of pretty much every hit in 1964.)

I see that the mono version appeared on CD on Motown's Supremes collection Every Great #1 Hit (1987), but I don't have this disc. It's one of the early Motown discs, mastered by John Matousek, so I'd be quite interested to hear what the mono 45 mix sounds in his hands. I'm surprised that an early Motown CD used the mono version, as most of those early Motown CDs used the stereo mixes.

I do have the mono version on Motown's 4-CD Diana Ross box set Forever Diana (1993). It sounds quite nice here, with seemingly low-generation source tapes, nice EQ, nice dynamic range, and no evidence on the fade of any added noise reduction. The same analog transfer is used on:

Motown's Diana Ross collection The Ultimate Collection (1994)

There's another analog transfer on Motown's 2-CD Anthology (1995), which sounds about as good as Ultimate. The same analog transfer is used on:

Motown's Supremes collection The Ultimate Collection (1997) - fades a second or two early, and seems severely compressed around -8 dB (!) Not sure what's happening here; avoid.
Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Rhythm And Blues Collection Vol. 3 1964-1967 (2000) - also fades a second or two early, and seems severely compressed around -8 dB; avoid.
Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000)
Rhino's Girl Group Greats (2001)
Rhino's 4-CD Soul Spectacular! - The Greatest Soul Hits Of All Time (2002)

There's a new analog transfer on Hip-O's 3-CD Heaven Must Have Sent You The Holland/Dozier/Holland Story (2005). It sounds muddy here, and there's a 60 Hz hum. Not great.

There's a new analog transfer on Hip-O Select's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 4 1964 Disc 5 (2006). It's EQ'd with too much high end, making sound a little brittle. The tail of the fade is about 2 beats shorter than all of the above. Also not great. The same analog transfer is used on:

Hip-O Select's 3-CD 50th Anniversary - The Singles Collection - 1961-1969 (2011)

Overall, I recommend Motown's 4-CD Diana Ross box set Forever Diana (1993) for the mono mix, although the Motown Supremes Anthology (1995, not the 1986 collection) also sounds great.

(I do wonder what the 1987 Every Great #1 Hit sounds like.)

Stereo

I know of five different stereo mixes for "Where Did Our Love Go".

Stereo 1964 Where Did Our Love Go LP mix

Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the left channel.

It showed up first on CD on a Motown Supremes collection called Compact Command Performances 20 Greatest Hits (1983), as part of Motown's first-ever CD releases. The same analog transfer is used on:

Motown's 20 Greatest Songs In Motown History (1985) - digitally exactly 2 dB louder
Motown's Composer Series The Greatest Songs Written By Holland Dozier Holland (1985) - digitally exactly 1.6 dB louder
Motown's Good-Feeling Music Of The Big Chill Generation Vol. 1 (1985) - digitally exactly 2 dB louder before 0:40 and 1 dB louder after 0:40
Motown Supremes Greatest Hits Vol. 1 And 2 (1986)
Motown's Motown's Biggest Pop Hits (1986)
Motown's Every Great Motown Song The First 25 Years (1986)
Motown's Every Great Motown Song Vol. 1 The 1960's (1986)
Motown's Motown's Biggest Pop Hits (1986)
Original Sound's Oldies But Goodies Vol. 8 (1986) - adds noise reduction; avoid
Motown's You Can't Hurry Love (1986)
Motown's Motown 9000 Series (1987)
Motown's 16 #1 Hits From The Early '60s (1987)
Motown's Most Played Oldies On America's Jukeboxes (1987)
Motown's Motown Dance Party Vol. 1 (1987)
Motown's Radio's #1 Hits (1987)
Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 9 1964 The Beat Goes On (1988) - left/right channels swapped; makes a very cool descending noise down around -40 dB at the end of the fade, but that's not part of the song
PolyGram's PGD Presents Sound Savers Vol. 1 (1991)
Time-Life's Rock And Roll The Legendary Years 1961-1964 (2004)

There's a different analog transfer on Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1964 (1989). The high end is boosted, but the sound is otherwise comparable to Compact Command Performances. The Rhino disc likely uses the same source tape as Compact Command Performances. The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 10 1964 (RE-2 reissue, copyright 1987, unsure of release date)
Time-Life's 2-CD Desert Island Classics (1990) - has left/right channels swapped
Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 12 The Mid-'60s (1991)
Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 5 The Mid-'60s (1995)
Time-Life's Classic Love Songs Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 4 (2003)

There are different analog transfers on:

Warner Special Products' 2-CD Real Rock (1987) - sounds muddy; avoid
Time-Life's Rock 'N' Roll Era Vol. 10 1964 (original release, 1987) - sounds muddy

I recommend Motown's Supremes collection Compact Command Performances 20 Greatest Hits (1983) for this mix.

Stereo 1967 Greatest Hits LP mix

Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the right channel. From 2:08 to 2:10, the claps migrate from the left channel to the right channel.

A YouTube video shows this version as being on the 1973 Anthology LP, with the silver cover.

I have two different analog transfers for this mix:

Motown/Silver Eagle's 3-CD Motown 25th Anniversary (copyright 1983) - sounds awful
Motown's 2-CD Supremes Anthology (1986)
Motown's Collection Of 16 Big Hits Vol. 5 (1989) - uses same analog transfer as Anthology

I recommend Motown's 2-CD Supremes Anthology (1986) for this mix.

Stereo 1995 mix

There's a mix I can't identify on Motown's Motown Year By Year 1964 (1995). The same analog transfer is used on:

Motown's Supremes Anthology (2001)

The initial claps have some low-frequency reverb on them. Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the right channel. From 2:08 to 2:10, the claps stay in the left channel.

The Year By Year discs are known for occasionally using previously unreleased mixes. This may be one of them. I recommend Motown's Motown Year By Year 1964 (1995) for this mix.

Stereo 1999 mix

There's another mix I can't identify on Motown's 20th Century Masters The Millennium Collection (1999). The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's 2-CD Glory Days Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 17 No. 1 Hits (2001)
Time-Life's 2-CD Body And Soul Battle Of The Groups The Ladies (2006)

Starting at about 0:11, this mix has the claps in the left channel, and the drums in the right channel. From 2:08 to 2:10, the claps migrate from the left channel to the right channel. The description sorta matches the 1967 Greatest Hits LP mix, but the overall mix is much more laid-back than the GH mix. The drums are pulled back so that they're not WAY out in front like the GH mix.

I recommend Motown's 20th Century Masters The Millennium Collection (1999) for this mix.

Stereo 2003 The No. 1's album mix

Suha Gur remixed all the Supremes tracks on The No. 1's (but not the Diana Ross solo tracks). May as well get Motown's Supremes No. 1's (2003) for this mix.

German version

I'm not sure when the Supremes rerecorded their tracks in German.

It's on Motown Around The World (1987), in a reasonably gentle EQ-based fake stereo, and running 2:32. It sounds fine here, with a terrific dynamic range. (Thanks, mastering engineer John Matousek.)

It's also on Motown's 50th Anniversary The Singles Collection 1961-1969 (2011), in mono, and running longer at 2:38. But it sounds awful, with muddy-sounding source tapes and extreme added compression/limiting.

Edited by crapfromthepast on 25 January 2025 at 12:02pm

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EternalStatic
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Posted: 25 January 2025 at 7:22am \| IP Logged

Enjoyed reading your breakdown with my morning coffee. I envision you just throwing discs into different stacks once the mix is determined and scratching your head
like a mad scientist! (I know you're probably mostly comparing ripped tracks, but please, let me have my fun.)

This may have been addressed elsewhere, but do you (or any other readers) have an overall recommendation for the one best purchase for getting a good and
thorough Supremes hit collection with a good balance of "right" but also "good sounding" versions? I have a copy of the Gold collection from 2005, which is
pretty thorough but I get the feeling it's likely full of remixes as created throughout the years.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 25 January 2025 at 11:58am \| IP Logged

How about two recommendations?

Motown's 2-CD Supremes Anthology (1995) does a stellar job of rounding up the mono versions, which were the hits. Motown released a whole series of these Anthology discs around 1995, all with similar artwork, most mastered by Bill Inglot, and most featuring the mono versions. This collection is the one you want if you only want to buy one. If you want to bulk up on Motown, hunt down the rest of the series of mid-'90s Anthology collections. They're that good.

Motown's Supremes Compact Command Performances 20 Greatest Hits (1983) does a superb job with the stereo versions of the hits. The stereo versions weren't the hits at the time, and were often treated as an afterthought by Motown. Still, if you must hear these songs in stereo, go with this one. The tracks are well chosen, and it sounds about as good as these tracks will sound in stereo. Motown released a whole series of these Compact Command Performances discs in the early '80s. Most are mastered by John Matousek, and most are excellent. (There are a few that feature non-Motown artists; avoid those.)

Happy hunting!

Edited by crapfromthepast on 25 January 2025 at 12:00pm

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EternalStatic
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Posted: 25 January 2025 at 12:09pm \| IP Logged

I had sort of a premonition that you would say Anthology ... Probably going to track both of these down. I like options!

Thanks for the info.

PopArchivist
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Posted: 03 February 2025 at 9:21am \| IP Logged

EternalStatic wrote:

I have found the best sounding stereo LP versions to be in the Gold series.

https://www.amazon.com/Gold-2-CD-Supremes/dp/B000929AFU/ref= sr_1_2?crid=YMS2LVJHV7M7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.in9RA6VWtSj2XPWj8f o_5sPQW9c4pZjM7mEmictOjJe__j1m-dtcf_oe7-GgzZn48bBCON0G1sKUgU Enzi9EwiTt00t5IFTVQES2dVLQNTLtV_qQsybuunXeKLvaOml9Z0Qf_nZgvG fwzmTQON6iXNAAY_dWpSpiLmIr9j75Uz7pC3fgT8-yQem60ydgskwFtyQZyT Qg6u_u1Y5uT4HZEmzlsk_aH6R0dj4ofdDf7tI.FPBuzWcCt1WceWgFhyGVCm zQd7gWMd8PYx2-3xtbEeU&dib_tag=se&keywords=gold+supremes&qid= 1738599685&sprefix=gold+supreme3%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-2

Go with Ron's recommendation for the mono.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 03 February 2025 at 8:40pm \| IP Logged

I sampled three songs from Gold, and liked what I heard on all three.

"You Keep Me Hangin' On" is EQ'd to dial back the vocals and emphasize the bass, compared to Compact Command Performances.

"Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart" has some severe tape problems on Compact Command Performances. It's missing the first few beats of the song, fades early, has it left/right channels swapped, and has at least one big tape dropout. It's much better on Gold.

"Some Things You Never Get Used To" isn't on Compact Command Performances, so I compared Gold with the 1986 2-CD Anthology. Gold has a slightly wider soundstage (listen to bleed-through in the left channel on the intro). Aside from an A-to-D converter issue that truncates the top half of the waveform in the left channel on Anthology, the sound quality is comparable between the two. The EQ of Gold bring out the bass a little more and dials back the vocals, although not with as drastic a difference as "You Keep Me Hangin' On".

Overall, if I can generalize from the three songs I heard, I like the EQ, the source tapes seem low-generation, there's plenty of dynamic range, and there's no evidence of added noise reduction on the fades.

I approve! Good call, PopArchivist!

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davidclark
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Posted: 04 February 2025 at 4:15am \| IP Logged

I also use Gold for many/most stereo LP mixes.

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Posted: 04 February 2025 at 7:46am \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

Several artists from the 60's have Gold releases (Marvin Gaye, Cher, Etta James, for example). The Gaye one is my go to for stereo LP for him as well....the Cher one has some 60's songs on it that are mastered well.

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EternalStatic
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Posted: 04 February 2025 at 4:09pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for the additional recommendation, PopArchivist and david, and for the additional analysis, cftp! I have a downloaded version of Gold, but it sounded so good and
full that I almost distrusted it, as in, I would have assumed it was full of latter-day remixes, etc. Glad to know I can hang on to it. I am still in the market for the
Anthology though.

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