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jimct
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| Posted: 21 May 2006 at 3:34pm | IP Logged
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Both my promo 45 and all 4 of my original stock 45s say "STEREO, also playable on mono phonographs." Problem is, all 5 45s are in MONO. I'll bet, during the CD era, no one at Elektra has ever played that 45 to confirm that it actually IS stereo, 'cause it ain't! I also believe this typo may have led CD tape librarians to pull a stereo master, to get what they believe to be the true "45" version. My guess is they have only 2 stereo master options; the "Wildflowers" LP version, and the done-long-after-the-fact "Colors Of The Day" version. My ear is suspect, but I believe Judy's vocal take on the mono 45 is different than either of the stereo versions. All my 45s have a listed time of (3:14), but actually run (3:11). My promo deadwax: EK 45639A-MON-1. Stock 45s appeared on both the red/black/white (deadwax EKM-45639A-CP-1) and the gold/black/white Elektra labels (deadwax EK 45639A-SP). Despite different deadwaxes, all sound (to me), and time out the same. May I request that the Board's audio experts give this 45 another listen? I'm just not 100% sure that what's currently in the db is accurate.
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jimct
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| Posted: 24 July 2008 at 2:24pm | IP Logged
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As I finish up 1968, I just noticed that my previous, listed (3:14), actual (3:11) time comment was never added to the database. Furthermore, I still have the same question that I originally asked above, now more than two years ago. Perhaps Yah Shure, Gary Mack or other 60's specialist could compare their 45 against the "Wildflowers" stereo CD version, or other version that Pat notates as being the "45 version" on CD, to actually confirm they are truly the same version; I remain less than 100% certain that they really are.
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 24 July 2008 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
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Jim, I only have "Both Sides Now" on 45 (like yours - states stereo, plays mono) and a promo copy of the vinyl LP Colors Of The Day. There's also a downloaded mp3 or two on the hard drive, but I do not have it on CD.
I may have been disappointed to have found the 45 was actually mono back in 1968, but today, I'm grateful that it was. To my ears (or what's left of them) none of the stereo versions I've heard captures the essence of that original single, and that's why I opted for a rip of the 45 for everyday listening.
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MCT1
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| Posted: 24 July 2008 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| All my 45s have a listed time of (3:14), but actually run (3:11). My promo deadwax: EK 45639A-MON-1. Stock 45s appeared on both the red/black/white (deadwax EKM-45639A-CP-1) and the gold/black/white Elektra labels (deadwax EK 45639A-SP). Despite different deadwaxes, all sound (to me), and time out the same. |
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I would surmise from the matrix number suffixes that these 45s were pressed by three different plants (MON=Monarch Records in Los Angeles; CP=Columbia Records' plant in Pitman, N.J.; SP=Specialty Records in Olyphant, Penn., which would later be bought by Elektra's future parent company Warner Music). They do not necessarily represent earlier or later pressings. The stampers used to press these 45s may very well have been sent to all three plants at the same time, and even the difference in label design could just be a matter of one plant switching over a little earlier or a little later than the others.
If they all sound exactly the same, I guess that's a compliment for Elektra's quality control department. I sometimes wonder if some of the multiple pressing situations that we encounter are just a matter of different plants not all being sent the same thing. Even slight differences in the length of fades could be a matter of whoever's making the stampers cutting multiple sets but not being careful to make sure the fades are all done exactly the same.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 24 December 2011 at 9:24am | IP Logged
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need some help here....i have cdr copy of "both sides now"
and need to know what, if anything, is the most notable
difference between the rerecorded version and the original
version....i don't know which cd i dubbed it from and it
sounds pretty close to the vinyl 45 i have, aside form the
mono/stereo differences....
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Smokin' TomGary
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| Posted: 25 December 2011 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
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There are two different versions of the song. I remember the "Wildflowers" version being played on WABC in New York. The "Wildflowers" CD released in 1987 (7559-60655-2) has less high end on "Both Sides Now" than the same versions on "Forever an anthology" Disc 2 (7559-62104-2) or "The Very Best of Judy Collins" (8122-74374-2-8). The 1987 CD may be one of those dubbed from the LP tape master.
The other version appears on "Freedom Rock" Disc 2 (Sessions/Warner Special Products OPCD-4510) and TM Century GoldDisc #308. Both have an actual time of 3:11. Definitely a different recording with Judy's vocal quite different than on the Wildflowers LP.
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MMathews
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| Posted: 25 December 2011 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
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I recently did a synch-test on this one to verify the
"Wildflowers" LP version / "Forever" Anthology do indeed
match the 45. They do.
The main difference tho is the 45 version is sped up
quite a bit from the LP, and the 45 has more reverb than
the LP, a common difference in the 60's.
Ed, the easiest way to spot the re-recorded vocal version
that appeared on the vinyl "Colors Of The Day, Best Of"
and the FIRST issue of that CD is in the 2nd or 3rd
chorus she says "...from give and take..."
In the hit version she only says "win and lose" on both
choruses.
Hope that helps.
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 20 November 2013 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
I recently did a synch-test on this one to verify the
"Wildflowers" LP version / "Forever" Anthology do indeed
match the 45. They do.
The main difference tho is the 45 version is sped up
quite a bit from the LP, and the 45 has more reverb than
the LP, a common difference in the 60's.
Ed, the easiest way to spot the re-recorded vocal version
that appeared on the vinyl "Colors Of The Day, Best Of"
and the FIRST issue of that CD is in the 2nd or 3rd
chorus she says "...from give and take..."
In the hit version she only says "win and lose" on both
choruses.
Hope that helps. |
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It's on the third chorus.:-) Different mix of instrumentation near the end,too. And it's the same situation as only ONE other big hit song, The Guess Who's one from the following year and early 1970-"No Time",first, much longer 5:35 version on "Canned Wheat" then 3:45 hit version on both single released in December 1969 and starting a run on the charts till around April 1970, joined on the way by its presence on the "American Woman" LP.
Only different between the two songs is "Both Sides Now" is practically the same length..if you'll pardon the LP version quote "give and take" :D a few seconds, not a difference in length like the Guess Who song [two minute difference there], likewise two different versions on one album each a year later. Oh..and one other difference is the Judy Collins song "Both Sides Now"'s single was from the FIRST LP, "Wildflowers", where the Guess Who's "No Time" came as a right before the next LP that the group did, "American Woman".
Edited by Steve Carras on 21 November 2013 at 9:06pm
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MMathews
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| Posted: 10 May 2015 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
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I need to double-check something about this 45. I have 2
reference dubs from different people and they run
different speeds.
One runs 3:11, matches the database listed time and has
the deadwax# EK-45639A-SP.
The other runs MUCH faster in pitch, yet fades at the
same point and therefore only runs 3:09. The deadwax
info provided is EKM 45639A-CP-1.
Jim, since one of your 45's has that deadwax#, can you
double check the run time on that one pressing? If it
comes out 3:11, then I'll know this other dub I have was
dubbed at the wrong speed.
MM
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jimct
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| Posted: 10 May 2015 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
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Markie, I just re-timed my "EKM 45639A-CP-1" deadwax stock 45 copy for
you (as well as my "EK-45639A-SP" deadwax stock 45 copy.) Both timing
results came back exactly the same: listed (3:14); actual (3:11).
Seems like the turntable that furnished you with the (3:09)-timed dub does
indeed have speed issues...
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MMathews
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| Posted: 11 May 2015 at 2:24pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Jim. I had a feeling that was the case. MM
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 20 June 2015 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
I recently did a synch-test on
this one to verify the
"Wildflowers" LP version / "Forever" Anthology do
indeed
match the 45. They do.
The main difference tho is the 45 version is sped
up
quite a bit from the LP, and the 45 has more reverb
than
the LP, a common difference in the 60's.
Ed, the easiest way to spot the re-recorded vocal
version
that appeared on the vinyl "Colors Of The Day, Best
Of"
and the FIRST issue of that CD is in the 2nd or 3rd
chorus she says "...from give and take..."
In the hit version she only says "win and lose" on
both
choruses.
Hope that helps. |
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How about the Spun Gold reissue (timed at 3:14)?
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 26 June 2015 at 5:21pm | IP Logged
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Smokin' TomGary wrote:
There are two different
versions of the song. I remember the "Wildflowers"
version being played on WABC in New York. The
"Wildflowers" CD released in 1987 (7559-60655-2)
has less high end on "Both Sides Now" than the same
versions on "Forever an anthology" Disc 2 (7559-
62104-2) or "The Very Best of Judy Collins" (8122-
74374-2-8). The 1987 CD may be one of those dubbed
from the LP tape master.
The other version appears on "Freedom Rock" Disc 2
(Sessions/Warner Special Products OPCD-4510) and TM
Century GoldDisc #308. Both have an actual time of
3:11. Definitely a different recording with Judy's
vocal quite different than on the Wildflowers LP.
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ANd as MMathews said, on "Colors of the Day, Best
of" (but only on the first CD version).
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 26 June 2015 at 5:26pm | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
I recently did a synch-test on
this one to verify the
"Wildflowers" LP version / "Forever" Anthology do
indeed
match the 45. They do.
The main difference tho is the 45 version is sped
up
quite a bit from the LP, and the 45 has more reverb
than
the LP, a common difference in the 60's.
Ed, the easiest way to spot the re-recorded vocal
version
that appeared on the vinyl "Colors Of The Day, Best
Of"
and the FIRST issue of that CD is in the 2nd or 3rd
chorus she says "...from give and take..." |
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And on om Gary mentioned, to tie this all up. I
read to make it even more co nfusing that both
verisons have appeared on the album that started
it all, on "Wildflowers", with "From win and lose"
being on all releases actually but Amazon.com for
the CD version having the clip with the "Freedom
Rock","Colors of Day",etc. lyrics ("From Give and
Take").
That and the business about the later recording
only on the first CD release of "Colors of the day
with the original one replacing it really makes it
confusing..
Also more and more prominent drums in the later
verison as the song ends..
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Steve Carras
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| Posted: 26 June 2015 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
I recently did a synch-test on
this one to verify the
"Wildflowers" LP version / "Forever" Anthology do
indeed
match the 45. They do.
The main difference tho is the 45 version is sped
up
quite a bit from the LP, and the 45 has more reverb
than
the LP, a common difference in the 60's.
Ed, the easiest way to spot the re-recorded vocal
version
that appeared on the vinyl "Colors Of The Day, Best
Of"
and the FIRST issue of that CD is in the 2nd or 3rd
chorus she says "...from give and take..." |
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And that version also appeared on a fvew other
albums like Freedon Rock (Warner Special
Productions) as above stated by SmokinTom Gary
mentioned, to tie this all up. I read to make it
even more co nfusing that both verisons have
appeared on the album that started it all, on
"Wildflowers", with "From win and lose" being on
all releases actually but Amazon.com for the CD
version having the clip with the "Freedom
Rock","Colors of Day",etc. lyrics ("From Give and
Take").
That and the business about the later recording
only on the first CD release of "Colors of the day
with the original one replacing it really makes it
confusing..
Also more and more prominent drums in the later
verison as the song ends..
__________________
You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Judy Collins - "Both Sides Now"
