Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Jaggerz

Active Topics

Memberlist

Help

Chat Board
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board

Topic: Jaggerz - The Rapper

Author

Message

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:15pm \| IP Logged

Pat suggested we start a new thread on this one, and since Tom brings some new info to the table, I'll be the one to start it :)

In the "CD mastering flaws" thread, Tom D says that his stock and promo 45s of Jaggerz "The Rapper" does not have the echo at 1:47 & 1:56. Jim mentions in a different thread that his stock 45 does have the "caw caw caw" reverb at these points in the song.

So, perhaps there is more than one mono mix floating around?

jimct
MusicFan

Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906

Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:11am \| IP Logged

Pat & Aaron: I have two stock copies of "The Rapper." BOTH have "caw-caw-caw" after the "coffee or tea or me" line, for 4 seconds, between 1:46 and 1:50. I would be happy to donate one of them to Pat (I'd LOVE to find a stock 45 WITHOUT that annoyance!) Deadwax on both of my 45s are simply "KA 502 A". Or I can forward a vinyl dub to Aaron for "research" purposes. I have NEVER been able to find a promo 45 for it, and I have looked hard. But I never heard the "caw-caw-caw" on radio in 1970, so I'd suspect it's not found there. I believe a previous poster stated that.

TomDiehl1
MusicFan

Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 719

Posted: 17 June 2006 at 1:41am \| IP Logged

jimct wrote:

Deadwax on my promo copy? KA 502 A. Other dead wax markings: machine stamped "Sterling", handwritten letters LH right after it. I can also make out faintly machine stamped letter P on one side of the dead wax and the number 3 on the other side of the dead wax, also machine stamped. These markings (and sound recording) matched the stock copy i had (but my promo with the Sterling machine stamp is on polystyrene while my old stock copy was on vinyl and i dont remember it having Sterling in the trail out) but I no longer have that stock 45 as i got rid of it when i aquired the promotional copy (or it might be sitting in a box of 45s waiting to be disposed of...ill go through that box and update this post if i find that i still have that copy). On my promo, placement of the writings in the dead wax according to my picture below are as follows:

KA 502 A is at 9:00, the letter P is at 10:00, the number 3 is at about 4:00, and STERLING is at about 6:30 (lol). If you make the image bigger, i think you can see some of the markings, both my 45 and scanner were dirty so some of that shows up in the picture too.

I ripped my promo 45 and put it on my Angelfire website. Angelfire doesnt allow hotlinking so you need to right click and save the file to your computer in order to hear it. Clicking on the file normally will give you an error message:

http://www.angelfire.com/md3/tomdiehl1/Jaggerz-TheRapper-pro mo.mp3

Edited by TomDiehl1 on 17 June 2006 at 1:59am

__________________
Live in stereo.

Pat Downey
Admin Group

Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1742

Posted: 17 June 2006 at 6:01am \| IP Logged

Thanks for starting a new thread on this topic. Looks to me like there is enough evidence of 2 different 45 pressings to warrant an entry in the database so I'll add it!

jimct
MusicFan

Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906

Posted: 17 June 2006 at 4:29pm \| IP Logged

Tom said: "KA 502 A is at 9:00, the letter P is at 10:00, the number 3 is at about 4:00, and STERLING is at about 6:30." I knew I should've paid more attention in my Forensic Science class in college! Especially with a guy with his own TV show, Dr. Henry Lee, teaching me! I see ALL the markings Tom has specified on my stock 45. The "P" is at 10:00, but the "3" is at 3 o'clock, not "4", and the "STERLING" with LH written in is at more like "4:30", not "6:30", for what it's worth. I just listened to Tom's download - it is ABSOLUTELY not what is on my 2 stock 45s. Great job, Tom!

Edited by jimct on 17 June 2006 at 4:30pm

TomDiehl1
MusicFan

Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 719

Posted: 02 October 2006 at 10:35am \| IP Logged

I just got a Canadian pressing of the 45. It has the same version as my promo 45, oddly the ONLY marking in the trail out on the Rapper side is KA-502-S1 (it plays in mono so the S1 must mean side 1). Therefore a different laquer had to have been made for it, my guess is this is the version that was supposed to be released. I had another friend check his version of the single and it ended up being the same as mine.

__________________
Live in stereo.

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 02 October 2006 at 12:37pm \| IP Logged

Since we now know that two 45 versions exist---one with the echo and one without---should we eliminate the "LP version" comments for all stereo copies? Were there other differences between the 45 and LP versions, aside from the echo? If not, that would mean the stereo LP version is the same as one of the 45 versions (except the mono/stereo difference).

TomDiehl1
MusicFan

Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 719

Posted: 02 October 2006 at 7:19pm \| IP Logged

Aside from the echo and other mixing differences, they are the exact same take. i didnt hear any additional or less instrumentation in one or the other when playing them side by side, just very different sounding mixes. On the stereo mix that I have, though, at the very end where the clapping is and you hear "thank you, thank you very much, love you (or 'thank you' again, i cant tell)" that spoken part is very faint, however it can be heard clearly on the mono mix from my promo 45 (mp3 should still be at that link for downloading).

However, for all practical purposes, the stereo version is the correct single version. i dont know why that other single version exists, but apparently it was a limited thing, maybe a west coast vs east coast thing?

Edited by TomDiehl1 on 02 October 2006 at 7:25pm

__________________
Live in stereo.

aaronk
Admin Group

Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6513

Posted: 02 October 2006 at 10:32pm \| IP Logged

Thanks, Tom! I had already decided that the stereo version was the only one on CD worth having. The mono mixes currently available on disc sound muddy, most likely because the tape heads weren't aligned properly. By contrast, the mono mix on the vinyl 45 sounds crisp and clean.

TomDiehl1
MusicFan

Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 719

Posted: 15 February 2010 at 5:25pm \| IP Logged

Resurrecting an aincent thread....here's an interesting twist....

I was given a copy of a reissue 45 of The Rapper backed with I Call My Baby Candy. It's on Buddah BG 19, i assume BG means Buddah Gold....it has a given label time of 2:42 but actually runs 2:38. I see my above link for the promo version doesn't seem to work anymore so I can't re-download it for timing purposes but I did a raw rip of the stock copy Jim sent me with the added echo and it timed out to 2:40. The mastering on the reissue is definitely different, it didn't come from the original stamper...the reissue sounds a lot muddier, the original 45 has a hotter mix, also. The reissue 45 has a 1984 copyright as well, and I would assume all reissues were like it, for anyone who wants to try to find this odd version on vinyl (or rather styrene) easily...matrix in the dead wax says BG 19A followed by FW and what appears to be an O with a line through the top of it.....

I find it odd that the reissue sounds very muddy, they must have lost the original master and this must have come from a copy which must be the only one they held on to as this version on cd sounds quite muddy too.

__________________
Live in stereo.

AdvprosD
MusicFan

Joined: 12 June 2020
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354

Posted: 16 August 2022 at 9:09am \| IP Logged

Ha! And, you thought this was an old thread in 2010 Tom...

I was digging through my old Collectables "Oldies.com" or "Nina's Discount Oldies" Maybe nowadays, "Gotham Distributing Corporation" CDs. Ugh!

On the disc originally called "Top of the Pop, The 70s Volume 2 Disc 4", (The name of the issue has changed a few times, but the track list stays the same), I found this echo version.
This came as a total shock to me as I don't recall ever hearing this version anywhere. Yeah, that's a recurring theme in my posts, I know!

Since this CD version from Collectables doesn't have any info on the source, except that this disc was made in 2004, I figured I'd come here and look. Sure enough, I think I found
the information I was looking for above. This version I found, to me doesn't sound muddy as described earlier. This is a stereo version as well timed at 2:39.
Perhaps if Ron has the time to look this over and make a crapfromthepast assessment?

I'm still freaking out about the echoes though. That doesn't add much to the appeal of the song IMHO. I'm now going to have to go research the band and see if they were actually a "Band."

__________________
<Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo!

crapfromthepast
MusicFan

Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2237

Posted: 16 August 2022 at 10:44am \| IP Logged

Mono 45 version with echo from 1:47 to 1:51

The mono 45 version with echo seems to have appeared first on Pair's Best Of Buddah (1988). The volume levels are pretty low here, and there's a slight EQ difference between left and right channels. The same analog transfer is used on:

Pair's Best Of Bubblegum Music (1988)
Special Music's Best Of The Bubblegum Years (1988)
Priority's Seventies Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 8 Super Songs (1991)

There's a different analog transfer on Essex's 3-CD The Buddah Box (1993). I prefer the sound on the Essex CD over the earlier releases - slightly better EQ, better volume levels, and more uniformity between left and right channels (the earlier discs have a slight EQ difference between channels). The same analog transfer is used on a budget Sony multi-artist compilation called Vintage Pop (2005).

It's safe to say that any CDs that include this mono version can trace their masterings back to the Pair disc or the Essex box set.

Mono 45 version without echo from 1:47 to 1:51

Doesn't appear to exist on CD.

Stereo LP version

The stereo version doesn't include the echo from 1:47 to 1:51. Dave: Can you check to see if your echo-from-1:47-to-1:51 version is stereo? I was under the impression that it didn't exist in stereo.

The earliest CD I have with the stereo version is PolyTel Canada's 2-CD Ready To Rock (1988). It's a pretty rare disc, and it's from a higher-generation tape source than everything that followed. Avoid.

The earliest (common) CD with the stereo LP version is Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1970 (1989). It sounds just fine, as you'd expect from this Rhino series. The same analog transfer is used on:

Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 1 1970 (1989) - digitally identical
Time-Life's Guitar Rock Vol. 6 1970-1971 (1994) - digitally exactly 0.4 dB louder
JCI's Only Dance 1970-1974 (1996)
Time-Life's 2-CD Seventies Music Explosion One-Hit Wonders (2005) - digitally identical

There's a new analog transfer on Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 1 (1990). The sound quality is basically the same as Billboard, but the track extends a wee bit farther (less than a second). The same analog transfer is used on:

Rhino's promotional Have A Nice Day Sampler (1990, PRO2 90056) - digitally identical
Rhino's cheapie Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 1 (1993)

My recommendations

For the mono 45 version with echo from 1:47 to 1:51, go with Essex's 3-CD The Buddah Box (1993).
For the stereo LP version (which doesn't have the echo), go with Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 1 (1990).

__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.

Search for other posts by crapfromthepast

AdvprosD
MusicFan

Joined: 12 June 2020
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354

Posted: 16 August 2022 at 10:59am \| IP Logged

I went back and checked with headphones. You are correct Ron, this version is also in mono.

__________________
<Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo!

crapfromthepast
MusicFan

Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2237

Posted: 16 August 2022 at 11:06am \| IP Logged

Dave - Good to know.

I should also point out that for the mono-with-echo versions, the sound on the mono 45 is significantly better than everything that's available on CD. There's a hi-hat playing eighth notes during the verses, but you wouldn't know it from the CD versions.

__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.0586 seconds.