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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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I mentioned this a while back, but the Varese compilation On The Radio has the song "Magic Carpet Ride" by Steppenwolf mastered from vinyl. They didn't even bother to take out the clicks throughout their dub.
The reason I mention this again is because the database does not note that it's a vinyl remaster. While it is the only CD that currently has the 45 version, the sound quality is so poor, it's not even worth picking up for this song.
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Roscoe
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| Posted: 04 January 2007 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
I mentioned this a while back, but the Varese compilation On The Radio has the song "Magic Carpet Ride" by Steppenwolf mastered from vinyl. They didn't even bother to take out the clicks throughout their dub.
The reason I mention this again is because the database does not note that it's a vinyl remaster. While it is the only CD that currently has the 45 version, the sound quality is so poor, it's not even worth picking up for this song. |
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Yes, unfortunately the master tape for the 45 version was destroyed long ago. At this point, any release of the 45 version will have to come from a vinyl source. The 45s were mastered with a lot of compression and distortion, so their sonics are distinctly lo-fi. These bad sonics are faithfully represented on the Dick Bartley CD.
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BillCahill
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| Posted: 04 January 2007 at 5:58pm | IP Logged
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You'll note Pat Downey's name (and mine) on the credits of that Varese CD. (along with other people that probably frequent this board.. My contribution was winning an arguement about the existance of a stereo single version of Sky Pilot.. I knew there was one but a tape couldn't be found, so they used a 45) I remember talking to Dick Bartley about Magic Carpet Ride and I Saw Her Again, both on that CD. He said Magic Carpet Ride was from the best 45 they could find, and got them to EQ it a bit so it wasn't so muddy. So it's an equalized 45. On I Saw Her Again, he pushed them to ADD bass because it was so thin. Interestingly, he told me I Saw Her Again was from a tape source. Although the original mono tape was thrown out with all the ABC Dunhill mono mixes in the early 70's, a tape was found overseas on I Saw Her Again as part of some compilation album, probably from the late 60's. Though it's probably a fifth generation removed from the master, at least it's a tape source. I think they've used that on the other mono issues of I Saw Her Again.
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TomDiehl1
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Did varese use an original ABC Dunhill pressing 45 for Magic Carpet Ride of one of the Goldies 45 reissue 45s?
The reissue 45s on that label existed on both vinyl and styrene, and a rather clean copy could've been pulled from a mint styrene copy and sounded slightly better than a mint vinyl copy would've sounded. My reissue however is on vinyl but I have no doubt a styrene pressing also exists.
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The Hits Man
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
Did varese use an original ABC Dunhill pressing 45 for Magic Carpet Ride of one of the Goldies 45 reissue 45s?
The reissue 45s on that label existed on both vinyl and styrene, and a rather clean copy could've been pulled from a mint styrene copy and sounded slightly better than a mint vinyl copy would've sounded. My reissue however is on vinyl but I have no doubt a styrene pressing also exists. |
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But, I understand that all reissue 45s are not the actual 45 mono single mix.
All of the original ABC/Dunhill 45s sound bad.
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jimct
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| Posted: 04 February 2007 at 10:30pm | IP Logged
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
| The reissue 45s on that label existed on both vinyl and styrene, and a rather clean copy could've been pulled from a mint styrene copy and sounded slightly better than a mint vinyl copy would've sounded. |
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Tom, with all due respect, EVERY time Aaron K and I hear someone "make the choice/sing the praises/tout the advantages" of selecting a styrene 45 transfer OVER a vinyl styrene transfer, we both shake our collective coconuts like bobbleheads, in TOTAL disbelief! I've sent Aaron MANY mint styrenes, and MANY mint vinyl 45 for him to work his audio magic on, and time after time after time, Aaron reiterates to me that his vinyl transfer results blow the DOORS off his styrene transfer results. This has also been my long-time personal observation. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose....
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aaronk
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| Posted: 05 February 2007 at 12:31am | IP Logged
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Yes, I concur with Jim. Styrenes are junk compared to vinyl. If I had to conjure up a guess (since I don't know the facts), I'd say using polystyrene was a way for record companies to save money.
I'm not saying I've never heard a nice sounding styrene, because there are a few that exist; however, many of the ones I've encountered tend to distort on the loud parts, as if someone were scraping a rock across concrete. They just don't hold up as well as vinyl does.
That's not to say that there isn't crappy sounding vinyl out there, too. Jim was kind enough to loan me four copies of "Hair" by the Cowsills--three on vinyl and one styrene repress. That MGM vinyl is pure garbage; it sounds like a hail storm against a window, even in mint condition. The styrene repress had hardly any surface noise at all, but it was terribly distorted.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 05 February 2007 at 12:37am | IP Logged
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The Hits Man wrote:
TomDiehl1 wrote:
Did varese use an original ABC Dunhill pressing 45 for Magic Carpet Ride of one of the Goldies 45 reissue 45s?
The reissue 45s on that label existed on both vinyl and styrene, and a rather clean copy could've been pulled from a mint styrene copy and sounded slightly better than a mint vinyl copy would've sounded. My reissue however is on vinyl but I have no doubt a styrene pressing also exists. |
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But, I understand that all reissue 45s are not the actual 45 mono single mix.
All of the original ABC/Dunhill 45s sound bad. |
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My reissue 45, which is on vinyl, does contain the original mono 45rpm mixes.
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TomDiehl1
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jimct wrote:
TomDiehl1 wrote:
| The reissue 45s on that label existed on both vinyl and styrene, and a rather clean copy could've been pulled from a mint styrene copy and sounded slightly better than a mint vinyl copy would've sounded. |
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Tom, with all due respect, EVERY time Aaron K and I hear someone "make the choice/sing the praises/tout the advantages" of selecting a styrene 45 transfer OVER a vinyl styrene transfer, we both shake our collective coconuts like bobbleheads, in TOTAL disbelief! I've sent Aaron MANY mint styrenes, and MANY mint vinyl 45 for him to work his audio magic on, and time after time after time, Aaron reiterates to me that his vinyl transfer results blow the DOORS off his styrene transfer results. This has also been my long-time personal observation. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.... |
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Maybe i should send him some of the Diamond label 45s i have on vinyl and styrene....the styrene copies sound so much nicer, especially when cleaned up, and then folded back down to mono so that there is not any stereo record noise (a lot of the distortion disappears that way too....and i dont think they did that for Magic Carpet Ride on cd or the result wouldve sounded different).
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aaronk
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TomDiehl1 wrote:
| i dont think they did that for Magic Carpet Ride on cd or the result wouldve sounded different. |
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You're correct, Tom. The clicks are stereo, so it looks like they did not fold this one down.
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BillCahill
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I first noticed the stereo edit of Magic Carpet Ride on the MCA 45 reissues. It was odd that they did that. Most of the time they just put the stereo versions on those reissue 45s after the mono version were thrown out to save money on storage. Someone, apparently in the 1980s created a new edit for 45 re-issues. I noted to Andy McKaie at MCA that it wasn't very faithful but he said they felt it was fine. Does anybody have Magic Carpet Ride on a re-issue 45 that's the full length version? Or in stereo on the Goldies label? I also think it was re-issued on Roulette as MCA and Roulette had some kind of trade agreement in the 1980's. Tommy James and other Roulette artists were on MCA re-issue 45s (Crimson and Clover was the album version on 45), Steppenwolf and other MCA artists ended up on Roulette re-issue 45s. I think Roulette just folded down everything to mono on some of these 45 releases.
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The Hits Man
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Bill, the original 45 was a mono remix. Those reissue 45s are nothing more than an approximation o0f that 45 in stereo, and it's not an accurate edit. The full length is, of course, available on CD everywhere you look...if I understand what you are getting at...
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davidclark
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not only was Magic Carpet Ride a mono remix/edit but the 45 has an alternate lead vocal. VERY noticeable right away.
Edited by davidclark on 12 February 2007 at 8:31pm
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The Hits Man
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davidclark wrote:
| not only was Magic Carpet Ride a mono remix/edit but the 45 has an alternate lead vocal. VERY noticeable right away. |
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Right! On the mono mix, John Kay sings "I like to dream!", with an upswing on the word 'dream". On the LP version, he sings it like he's bored. The organ is also much louder on the mono 45.
Edited by The Hits Man on 16 February 2007 at 10:44pm
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Bob Lovely
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As legend has it, the 45 vocal was an early take much like a "guide vocal". Reportedly, it was "accidently" used on the "mixdown" for the Mono 45 from the original 16-track multi-track tape. Further, John Kay prefers the vocal that was later cut for the Stereo LP mix and subsequent release. The Mono mix was tossed [as were many ABC/Dunhill Mono masters] when ABC purchased the Dot masters in the early 70's and they needed room in their vault. We lost these historic mixes for Pat Boone masters...
Bob
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 18 February 2007 at 4:47pm | IP Logged
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I'm not sure if anybody knows the real reason for the difference in vocal. On one version he sings flies far, goes near, the other goes far, flies near. I figured one of them was wrong so John Kay re-did it. But the vocal is only different through the first chorus. And on the fade out chorus.(at the end, the 45 splices in the differently sung first chorus, the LP version splices a different chorus at the end) The second verse and chorus matches on both versions, that wasn't re-done. Dick Bartley told me he asked John Kay about it and Kay said he thought he did the song in one take, so it's doubtful even Kay remembers why it's different.
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Bob Lovely
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Bill Cahill wrote:
| I'm not sure if anybody knows the real reason for the difference in vocal. On one version he sings flies far, goes near, the other goes far, flies near. I figured one of them was wrong so John Kay re-did it. But the vocal is only different through the first chorus. And on the fade out chorus.(at the end, the 45 splices in the differently sung first chorus, the LP version splices a different chorus at the end) The second verse and chorus matches on both versions, that wasn't re-done. Dick Bartley told me he asked John Kay about it and Kay said he thought he did the song in one take, so it's doubtful even Kay remembers why it's different. |
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Bill,
I took my information from the ACE CD, "Chartbusters USA, Vol. #2" and from discussions that have taken place over at Steve Hoffman's forum over the years. ACE does not specifically list their sources of information but, it certainly makes sense, considering the vocal takes are obviously different. As you may recall, Hoffman mastered this track [Stereo mix] for the "Vintage Hits" series issued by MCA many years ago.
Bob
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Todd Ireland
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[DUPLICATE POST DELETED]
Edited by Todd Ireland on 13 January 2008 at 9:34pm
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The Hits Man
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 12:08am | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
I mentioned this a while back, but the Varese compilation On The Radio has the song "Magic Carpet Ride" by Steppenwolf mastered from vinyl. They didn't even bother to take out the clicks throughout their dub.
The reason I mention this again is because the database does not note that it's a vinyl remaster. While it is the only CD that currently has the 45 version, the sound quality is so poor, it's not even worth picking up for this song. |
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A little trip through Adobe Audition can help the sound, but, that version on the CD is very representative of the sound of the actual 45. In fact, it's very hard to find a clean-sounding 45. It was pressed on cheap vinyl. I have four copies, and they all sound bad.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
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I'm digging this thread back up again because, according to the database, CD appearances of "Magic Carpet Ride" with the "LP version" comment have run times ranging from 4:18 to 4:28. I happened to compare the song from Steppenwolf's Born to Be Wild/A Retrospective CD (MCA 10389; run time - 4:19) to the All-Time Greatest Hits disc (MCA 088112063; run time - 4:26) and noticed something... On the Retrospective CD, the intro to "Magic Carpet Ride" has a truncated fade-in. However, the song's intro on the Greatest Hits disc has a slow, smooth, fully intact fade-in, thus accounting for the song's overall longer run time.
My question is this... Did Steppenwolf's 1969 parent vinyl LP The Second contain the truncated or the fully intact fade-in intro of "Magic Carpet Ride"? Once we uncover the answer, it should be noted in the database which CDs contain the "true" LP version with the correct intro.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride
