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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 November 2005 at 1:37pm | IP Logged
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Here's a nice headache for Pat... In the database, there are 37 CDs that have the song "Voices Carry" by 'Til Tuesday. When I first heard the song on Rhino's 80's Pop Culture Box, I noticed that something sounded slightly different than what I was used to hearing on my TM Century disc.
Well, I finally pulled out both discs to do a comparison, and sure enough, there are two different MIXES of this song. If I had to guess, I'd say the one on the Rhino disc is the 45 mix. Here are the differences I hear on that one:
- Pitched up slightly (about 1%)
- More reverb on the drums & high hat
- Vocals mixed forward
- Vocal reverb is not as "echoey" -- on the other mix, it sounds like Aimee Mann is singing in a public restroom.
So, of course, the question is, which one is the 45 mix, and which CDs of the 37 listed contain the 45 mix?
Edited by aaronk on 04 November 2005 at 1:39pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 04 November 2005 at 4:46pm | IP Logged
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As much as I like "Voices Carry", I think I'd burn out on the song for a good while if I was faced with the prospect of having to listen to it 37 times for mix differences! :-)
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edtop40
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| Posted: 04 November 2005 at 5:09pm | IP Logged
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me too!!
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edtop40
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aaronk
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| Posted: 04 November 2005 at 5:45pm | IP Logged
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Hahaha!
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MMathews
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| Posted: 05 November 2005 at 7:00am | IP Logged
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Hehe, yes the 45 was a different mix than the LP.
But I too have heard the enough to last a lifetime. ("shut up! shut up! shut up!...") :-)
But I still love the much-less-often-played "Coming Up Close" from that album.
-MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 29 October 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
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Bringing this to the top, as Ed had a question about the mix differences.
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cmmmbase
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| Posted: 29 October 2006 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
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actually, Coming Up Close was from the follow-up album "Welcome Home", and was the follow-up single to What About Love.
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chendagam
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 3:04pm | IP Logged
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I have the promo 12" of this and there is a "single mix" that has a time
listing of 3:59. Is the same as the 45 mix that runs for 4:17 in the
database? The flip side has the "long version" that has a listing of 4:19.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
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My promo 45 has a printed (3:59) time on both sides, and it is an edit of the full length single mix. My guess is that the 45 version is the "long version" on your promo 12" copy (and the "single mix" is the DJ edit). You'll have to check to see if the mix on the 12" matches the description above.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 04 February 2007 at 10:28am | IP Logged
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After spending some time with these, here's what I found:
The commercial 45 is blue label Epic 34-04795, matrix number ZSS-173189-1B, with a printed time of 4:19 and an actual run time of 4:22. It's indeed a different mix, and "Mixed by Bob Clearmountain" appears on the label and sleeve. The differences are noted above, and show up most clearly in the reverb on the snare drum and the vocals. The fade begins and ends in roughly the same places as the LP, so the lengths are about the same. It's also 1.3% faster than the LP mix, with 106.6 BPM for the single and 105.2 BPM for the LP. (The song was recorded with a click track, and the tempo remains roughly the same throughout - no tape drift.)
The promo 45 is white label Epic 34-04795, matrix numbers ZSS-173221-1A and ZSS-173221-1B on A- and B-sides, respectively. Both sides are identical, with identical versions and identical labels. They have a printed run time of 3:59 and an actual run time of 4:04. "Mixed by Bob Clearmountain" appears on the labels. The promo version is an edit of the single mix, with the portion of 2:55-3:13 removed; edits appear to be on the downbeats. The promo 45 can easily be recreated from the commercial single mix, with an identical fade to the commercial 45. The promo 45 is a tiny bit slower than the commercial 45, running at 106.5 BPM.
The commercial 45 ("single version", 106.6 BPM) appears on these CDs:
Body Talk - Heart And Soul (Time-Life R834-20, 1998)
Like Omigod (Rhino)
Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 14 (Rhino, 1995)
(Note that the version on the Body Talk CD is digitally exactly 2 dB quieter than that on Just Can't Get Enough, with a small amount of clipping in the first half of the song. The version on Like Omigod is mastered way too loud, and clips severely throughout.)
The LP version (105.2 BPM) appears on these CDs:
The "A" List Disc 28 (Swaitek, 1994)
Club Epic Vol. 5 (Epic Dance, 1996)
Forever '80s (Razor & Tie, 1994)
Greatest Hits Of The 80's Volume 1 (Realm A3H 26222, 1995)
Modern Rock - 1984-1985 (Time Life R828-03, 1999)
Read The Hits/Best Of The 80's (Risky Business/Sony, 1994)
Rock Of The 80's Volume 5 (Priority, 1993)
Sounds Of The Eighties - 1985 (Time-Life R988-02, 1994)
(Note that Club Epic is mastered too loud and clips throughout. The best-sounding of these is, in my opinion, Forever '80s, which was mastered by Steve Hoffman.)
There is an early fade of the DJ 45 edit on Gold & Platinum Vol. 2 (Realm 1CD 7726, 1986), which runs slow by about 0.6% at 105.9 BPM.
This is more than anyone should ever want to know about this song ("Shut up" indeed!)...
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elcoleccionista
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| Posted: 19 May 2010 at 10:22am | IP Logged
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The single mix is also available on their compilation
"Coming Up Close - A Retrospective" (EK 64944).
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 13 December 2020 at 6:36pm | IP Logged
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LP version (4:20)
The LP version first appeared on Epic's full-length 'Til Tuesday CD Voices Carry (1985). Sound is just fine here - nice EQ, (likely) low-generation source tapes, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. There's a lot of headroom, so it could probably be about 3 dB louder without much clipping, but that's a minor gripe easily fixed with a volume knob. It's a live drummer playing to a click track, running at about 105.2 BPM throughout. The same analog transfer is used on:- Sony's Big Hits Of The 80's (1993) - digitally exactly 0.2 dB louder
- Priority's Rock Of The '80s Vol. 5 (1993)
- Sony's 2-CD Read The Hits (1994) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 2 1985 (1994)
- Razor & Tie's 2-CD Forever '80s (1994)
- Realm's 3-CD Greatest Hits Of The '80s Vol. 1 (1995) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- Sony's Rock Almanac Vol. 1 The 1980s (1995) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- Priority's I Love Rock And Roll Vol. 4 Hits Of The 80's (1996) - digitally exactly 2.38 dB quieter than Forever '80s
- Warner Special Products' 2-CD Punk (1996)
- Sony's Hits Of The 80's Vol. 3 1984-1985 (1997) - digitally exactly 1 dB louder than Read The Hits
- Sony's Hits Of 1985 (1999) - digitally exactly 1 dB louder
- Time-Life's 2-CD Modern Rock Vol. 3 1984-1985 (1999) - digitally exactly 0.4 dB louder than Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 2 1985
- Sony's 3-CD Eighties Pop Hits (2001) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Classic '80s (2002) - digitally exactly 1.55 dB louder than Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 2 1985
- TM Century track no. 00000003 - adds noise reduction; avoid
- TM Century track no. 0020605 - digital clone; same volume level but adds dithering noise (insignificant)
- swaitek's promo 5-CD The A List Disc 28 (1994) - mastering based on TM Century track no. 00000003; avoid
There's another mastering on Epic's Club Epic Vol. 5 (1996), which is too loud and clips a lot; avoid.
45 version (4:21)
The 45 is a different mix than the LP, which brings the vocals front and center. (As Aaron noted fifteen years ago, the LP mix has Aimee singing in a tile bathroom.) It's also sped up, so that the tempo is 106.6 BPM throughout.
The 45 mix first appeared on CD on Rhino's Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 14 (1995), with a digital clone on:- Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 20 Heart And Soul (1998) - digitally exactly 2 dB quieter
It's also on:- Aimee's unsanctioned best-of on Hip-O Ultimate collection (2000)
- Rhino's 7-CD Like Omigod (2002)
- Sony's 5-CD Epic 50th Anniversary Collection (2003)
- Madacy's Rock On 1985 Vol. 2 (2005) - digitally exactly 0.2 dB quieter than Epic 50th Anniversary Collection
I think it may also be on Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 2 (1986), but it fades about a minute early; avoid.
Promo 45 version
It's an edit of the commercial 45, running at the same speed (106.6 BPM) as the commercial 45.
Using the timing from Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 14, remove the 32 beats, on downbeats, from 2:55 to 3:13. Easy.
It doesn't exist on CD.
My recommendations
For the LP version, the original Voices Carry (1985) is nice if you already own it. If you're going to go out and buy a disc for the song, go with Sony's 2-CD Read The Hits (1994), which is a favorite of mine.
For the 45 version, go with Rhino's Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 14 (1995).
Edited by crapfromthepast on 14 December 2020 at 10:10am
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garye
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| Posted: 20 December 2020 at 3:02pm | IP Logged
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I happen to have a FLAC of the promo edit of "Voices
Carry" from the 12 inch promo if anyone is interested.
Along with the commercial single.
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EternalStatic
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| Posted: 27 December 2020 at 9:44am | IP Logged
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The Single Mix is also available on Priority/Sony's Chart Toppers Modern Rock Hits Of The 80s Vol. 1, 1998. It's a pretty old-school mastering: fairly thin sounding, with bass that seems to recede a little after the first
verse starts. It's fine if not very dynamic, and especially if you like your '80s music mastered a bit on the trebly side.
There is also a 2012 UK CD remaster of the parent album on Hot Shot Records (distributed by Cherry Red UK) that also appears to be available from US digital retailers (iTunes, etc.). This release features the LP Version and the
Single Mix both remastered to very modern standards, for better or worse. Looking at the waveforms, I wouldn't really call them brickwalled, although the LP Version clips a little bit. For both tracks, the low-end is brought forth more
than any other CD mastering of this song that I have heard but it does not sound bad at all -- just very full and, I think, a tiny bit compressed.
Edited by EternalStatic on 27 December 2020 at 9:45am
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Topic: ’Til Tuesday - Voices Carry
