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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 10:05am | IP Logged
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The 2-CD set "All The Leaves Are Brown..." contain three mono mixes: I Saw Her Again, Words Of Love, and Creeque Alley.
Are these tracks pulled from mono LP masters?
Also, in another thread BillCahill writes:
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| I can't speak for all tracks but some songs had a separate Mono LP mix. Creeque Alley and Words of Love are good examples. They have mono LP mixes but the 45s had instrumentation added. Monday Monday and California Dreamin' MIGHT be the 45 rpm mix but I don't know for sure. |
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According to the database, "Words Of Love" is indicated on the CD as "mono and stereo LP version" and "45 version." This is different than what Bill is saying, and he has proven to be a very trustworthy and accurate source for these kinds of inquiries.
So, does the database need to be updated for "Words Of Love"? If not, where did they find the mono single master for this song?
Edited by aaronk on 24 November 2010 at 10:06am
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
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I know Creeque Alley has a different mono single mix, and it was a 45 dub on the CD.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
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Do you mean it was a mono vinyl LP dub on the CD? The database indicates "mono LP version."
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 1:31pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| Do you mean it was a mono vinyl LP dub on the CD? The database indicates "mono LP version." |
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Maybe I'm wrong. I've always read that the single mix was different than the album version. But it's entirely possible that just means the stereo album version is different.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
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Brian, you are correct that the single is a different mix. According to the database, there are THREE mixes of "Creeque Alley": the stereo LP mix, the mono LP mix, and the mono 45 mix. I think we might be referring to two different CDs, though. The Varese compilations have the "45 version," and I would guess that both are dubbed directly from the 45s, just like you said. The 2-CD Mamas and Papas "All the Leaves Are Brown..." contains the "mono LP version." Is that also a vinyl dub, or did the mono LP master tape survive for that one?
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jimct
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 7:38pm | IP Logged
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Aaron, stereo/mono issues of the same LP were almost automatic, until about 1968 or so. Regrettably, I believe a clear majority of these mono LPs (with "Sgt. Pepper" heading the exception list of a decent number of uniquely-mixed mono albums) were simply fold-downs of their stereo LP mix counterparts. Not great for those of us hoping to re-source/corral those thrown-away, Dunhill unique 45 mono versions using the highest quality vinyl source, even if it is an original LP issue. Retail would charge a buck more for the stereo version, the thoery being that the kids' cheaper, often-portable record players only cranked out audio in mono, while the parents had the full stereo console set-up. The best tip I've ever heard on assessing Dunhill/ABC 45s quality were that the ones with the smaller title/artist lettering were pressed by the plant that utilized by far the best quality vinyl, while the plant manufacturing 45s with the larger title/artist lettering used absolutely awful quality vinyl. I'm sure one of our "pressing-plant gurus" can shed more light on this! Finally, I thought I read/heard about a recent discovery, where tape copies of these mono mixes had been located in the UK, but I've heard nothing since.
Edited by jimct on 24 November 2010 at 7:45pm
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KentT
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| Posted: 24 November 2010 at 8:14pm | IP Logged
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These were either copy masters of the 45 singles or needledropped from 45 singles. No original tapes are likely extant since the 1970's ABC master tape purge of mono or multi-track master reels. Some master dubs were at Trousdale Music (their publishing company) and many are only available now as copy tapes (in the UK EMI saved their ABC master copy tapes from the US label). So second or third generation tapes for the mono material are the only tapes extant.
Edited by KentT on 24 November 2010 at 8:17pm
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Hykker
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| Posted: 25 November 2010 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| I believe a clear majority of these mono LPs (with "Sgt. Pepper" heading the exception list of a decent number of uniquely-mixed mono albums) were simply fold-downs of their stereo LP mix counterparts. Not great for those of us hoping to re-source/corral those thrown-away, Dunhill unique 45 mono versions using the highest quality vinyl source, even if it is an original LP issue. |
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Can't speak for all Dunhill mono LPs, but in 1967 a friend of mine & I each bought "Farewell To The First Golden Era" around the same time...mine was the stereo one since I'd just gotten a stereo turntable, his was the mono version since he didn't have a stereo. His contained what sounded like the single versions of such songs as "Words Of Love" and "I Saw Her Again" (at the time I wasn't aware of differences on any other M&P songs). If there were any mix differences between the 45 and mono LP versions of those two I didn't pick up on them.
I came away sort of feeling like I got took since I didn't get the "proper" versions of the songs while he did.
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TomDiehl1
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| Posted: 26 November 2010 at 10:02pm | IP Logged
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My mom think it's weird that I have kept both the mono and stereo copies of the Mamas & the Papas Deliver. I have never played them side by side to see what differences there are but if there are any, I have a reason to hold on to both. Granted, I haven't played either more than maybe twice since I bought them a couple of years ago.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Mama & Papas - All The Leaves Are Brown
