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edtop40
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| Posted: 26 January 2006 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
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pat
the database says the 45's face is 3:56......my 45 states on the label 2:36 while it actually runs 2:38
might want to make the correction
edtop40
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NightAire
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| Posted: 10 March 2011 at 6:07pm | IP Logged
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Although it's available on CD already edited (as listed in the database), for those who want to make their own from the original CD, here how:
Take out 0:08 - 0:18 (9.5 seconds).
Cut at 2:38, just as the "break-down" is starting.
Fade to taste! The copies I have start the fade at about 2:28, near the "leer" of the word "Delirious." ...Yes, that makes for a pretty quick, 10 second fade.
I prefer my edit from the original CD to the single versions on CD, simply because so many of them are pretty heavily limited.
..."1999" isn't exactly known for its sonic clarity, but I see no reason to further damage the recordings. :)
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Gene Savage
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aaronk
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| Posted: 11 March 2011 at 9:27am | IP Logged
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NightAire wrote:
I prefer my edit from the original CD to the single versions on CD, simply because so many of them are pretty heavily limited.
..."1999" isn't exactly known for its sonic clarity, but I see no reason to further damage the recordings. :) |
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Actually, the Hits/B-Sides isn't limited/clipped at all, as far as I can remember. Also, I've never had any issues with the sound quality of 1999, or any of his '80s albums on CD for that matter. They may be a little flat, but, like Gene, I actually prefer flat rather than exaggerated highs and lows, which often plagues "remastered" discs.
Edited by aaronk on 11 March 2011 at 9:28am
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Aaron Kannowski
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995wlol
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| Posted: 11 March 2011 at 2:48pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
| Actually, the Hits/B-Sides isn't limited/clipped at all, as far as I can remember. |
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I was thinking the same thing. In fact, I once compared the waveform of "Diamonds and Pearls" from "The Hits" to its original 1992 promo CD single counterpart and the version on "Hits" actually had the wider dynamic range.
Edited by 995wlol on 11 March 2011 at 2:49pm
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 11 March 2011 at 3:00pm | IP Logged
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+1 on the sound of the three Hits discs. No extra
compression/limiting, no noise reduction, no weird EQ.
I still wish Madonna's Immaculate Collection could have
been done this way.
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NightAire
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| Posted: 11 March 2011 at 9:28pm | IP Logged
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If you compare the "Hits" version of Delirious to the 1999 version of Delirious in a .wav editor (Adobe Audition, Audacity, etc) you'll see that they did indeed clip the peaks... not heavily, but enough to be visible. How audible it is, is debatable.
(I haven't compared "Diamonds & Pearls" before... but I will now! Perhaps they did more compression on the older tracks to get a more consistent track-to-track dynamic range? I have no idea.)
As far as the fidelity of 1999, I think Prince was experimenting with a lot of stuff... there seems to be a "grit" on almost all of his vocals, and while the recordings have a reasonably flat frequency response when looked on on a graph, they "sound" dull to my ears.
Please believe me I am NO fan of over-eq'd, digitally clipped "remasters."
I once tried to re-eq the 1999 CD for my own personal listening, but the highs got too harsh before it was to the "crispness" I wanted. It's no mastering defect; it's what Prince wanted, and it's the way the album sounded from the vinyl to the cassette to the CD(s) (both of them; I bought the first one without "D.M.S.R." & the 2nd release when they included it).
The Hits discs are a fine sounding collection, don't get me wrong! I'm simply looking for the MOST open, most unprocessed, most dynamic version of each recording. Sometimes the differences are drastic, sometimes the differences are degrees.
I don't see how anything could compare to the crushed CD "3121." Listening to it, it was obvious they had stomped on the audio; putting it into Adobe Audition to look at it was shocking. It wasn't a buzz cut; it was a lobotomy! They flattened every last ounce of life out of that album... and it's a shame, because I thought there were some pretty good songs on it.
Back to the original point: ...what was my original point?
OH! #1, Delirious is better from 1999 than The Hits but maybe by only a little, and #2 personally I think Prince's "effects" on 1999 make some of the tracks dull-sounding & gritty... and neither are easily "fixable" without going back to the original tracks... at which point you're destroying what the artist intended.
...I'VE wondered if he was trying to duplicate the "grunge" of poorly mastered vinyl / a worn needle / a mis-aligned needle for those listening on cassette. I always chocked up the vinyl version's "grit" to it being vinyl being played on my lame turntable... & the cassette was muddy because, well, it's obviously a dupe that got made with the heads starting to get out of alignment.
Then I got the CD.
OOPS! XD
It's interesting to me that we go from such an odd-sounding (to me) album to one I think is near sonic perfection: Purple Rain. He uses a little "grit" (albeit a different kind) on The Beautiful Ones & Computer Blue, but the mix & eq of everything else is so good it fits in better... it's like he "figured it out."
Then you have Around The World In A Day, an album which sounded just fine to me on LP but starts out pretty thin on CD. ("The Ladder" has this same grit, come to think of it!)
Parade is an exceptionally good sounding CD as well.
Sign O The Times is such a mixed bag... but it's still a pretty darn good sounding CD start to finish.
LoveSexy is GORGEOUS, beautiful start to finish, first time for really DEEP bass. I thought Batman was also expertly mixed & mastered.
Going back to 1980, Dirty Mind was a very "analog" sounding album, but that was the intent & it's not distorted or badly mixed or eq'd really strangely... he just really managed to get a "garage band" sound, which fit perfectly.
Controversy is a much cleaner album, although I think he was using some sort of compressor on at least some of the instruments to "fatten them up" & ended up with some minor distortion on some peaks in some songs. It's not clipping; it's an analog overload, & possibly very intentional.
The only annoyance I found in his 80s albums is that, at least until LoveSexy, you could usually find a place in the album where he let a 60-cycle hum leak into the recording at some point or another. I'd have to go back over the CDs to find them all, I just remembered being shocked that such a perfectionist would tolerate such at thing! Either he thought it didn't matter on analog (unlikely) or he thought it added "something," maybe put you in front of the live amps... who knows. It wasn't often, it was ALWAYS low volume, & it was so unobtrusive I can't recall from memory where it happened, if that tells you anything. :)
I heard the remastering of Purple Rain & thought the same thing I thought before I listened to it: why? They again added some light clipping to the recordings, but I wasn't sure how you could improve on the original CD, and (they did the right thing and) they didn't really tweak it at all, as far as I could tell.
...Blah, blah, blah!!! Boy, I'm talkative tonight! :) Your turn!
Aaron, 995wlol, CFTP: I respect ALL of your opinions & all of your ears. Hopefully my explanation here has clarified what I'm hearing / seeing / saying. If not, hit me up again! And if you think I've missed what you were saying, tell me again. I'll also give some of these CDs fresh spins over the next few days to make sure my memory isn't deceiving me. :)
P.S. - It IS a shame Madonna's Immaculate Collection couldn't have been a great-sounding collection of her original singles. They missed another opportunity with "Celebration," from what I've read here...
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aaronk
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| Posted: 11 March 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged
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I totally agree with you, Gene. 1999 isn't a bright or crisp sounding album (just as Prince probably intended). Like you said, though, when you start to pump up the high end, one part will sound less grungy, but the next part sounds too bright. I also agree that the vocals have an intended grunge/distortion effect added to them, which adds to the darkness of the album.
If "Delirious" clips on the Hits, it's certainly not noticeable on playback. In fact, I find that many songs which visually appear to have somewhat heavy clipping in an audio editor don't sound distorted at all when played back. I'm not talking about brickwalled recordings, just ones where there is normal clipping. I can definitely tell when heavy compression has been added (ear fatigue), and when a recording is overmodulated (distortion), but I haven't been able to hear the difference when comparing a song that has some clipping with the same song that doesn't clip.
For instance, if I take a song with no clipping and boost the volume to the point where there is clipping throughout, I haven't been able to hear any artifacts from the clipping. I'm talking about a moderate boost, though, and not one where the file looks brickwalled.
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Aaron Kannowski
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MMathews
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Hi all,
just a mention about the first post...
although i no longer own it, i can confirm that my commercial 45 of "Delirious" i bought when when it first came out, did indeed state a time of 3:56 on the label (but ran the shorter length.) It confused me at the time.
Also, just an aside from an audio mastering geek... careful with the term "clipping"... this refers to distortion that occurs when a audio peak is allowed to pass the "zero db" point and causes distortion, which is usually heard as a "snap" or loud crackling in the audio.
I've been told "Peak limiting" is the proper term for turning up the volume such as to be limited at zero db. (this can cause a "flattening" of the waveform at those peaks, when too much volume is applied, such as most modern cd's that sound horrid...).
This does not mean its "clipped". "Clipped" audio is actually *missing* audio (replaced by distortion)...
Peak-limited audio, when over-done, is simply missing some of it original frequency response.
Hence, the great irony of current/modern music cd's sounding like bad cassettes, or far worse.
-MM
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aaronk
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| Posted: 12 March 2011 at 9:38pm | IP Logged
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MMathews wrote:
Also, just an aside from an audio mastering geek... careful with the term "clipping"... this refers to distortion that occurs when a audio peak is allowed to pass the "zero db" point and causes distortion, which is usually heard as a "snap" or loud crackling in the audio.
I've been told "Peak limiting" is the proper term for turning up the volume such as to be limited at zero db. (this can cause a "flattening" of the waveform at those peaks, when too much volume is applied, such as most modern cd's that sound horrid...).
This does not mean its "clipped". "Clipped" audio is actually *missing* audio (replaced by distortion)...
Peak-limited audio, when over-done, is simply missing some of it original frequency response.
Hence, the great irony of current/modern music cd's sounding like bad cassettes, or far worse.
-MM
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Yes, I believe this is what most of us are talking about when we refer to clipping. In Cool Edit Pro, the "clip" indicators light up red when you push the audio to 0 db; however, the program does not allow it to go louder than 0, so you don't hear any loud crackling or distortion. Essentially, it just becomes peak limited. Now, if you increase the volume dramatically, you will start to hear distortion.
As you point out, there are many CDs today that have been peak limited to the point of distortion and the original frequency response is missing. Again, I don't really hear any difference in the audio when something has been lightly or even moderately peak limited.
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Aaron Kannowski
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Topic: prince "delirious"
