Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Andrew Gold

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Topic: Andrew Gold - Lonely Boy

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aaronk
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Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:29pm \| IP Logged

The actual timing of the promo 45 of Andrew Gold's "Lonely Boy" is
4:02 (as opposed to the printed time of 3:54). If you slow down the
HAND version by about 0.5%, you'll have the correct promo 45 version.

Pat, you may want to note the actual time in the database, since most
CDs run several seconds longer than the 3:54 printed time.

Edited by aaronk on 18 August 2012 at 12:13am

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Aaron Kannowski
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 22 September 2012 at 5:34pm \| IP Logged

It might additionally helpful for subscribers if the database contained something like a "this is the DJ edit, but slightly slower" comment next to each of the 3:55-3:59 CD appearances of "Lonely Boy".

Pat Downey
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 9:10am \| IP Logged

Something doesn't add up here as my dj copy of Lonely Boy, Asylum 45384, matrix number EM 45384 A-SP which is mono runs (3:59) not (4:02) as reported by Aaron. Anyone else have a dj edit of this song they could time?

Edited by Pat Downey on 24 September 2012 at 9:10am

aaronk
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 11:41am \| IP Logged

Pat, we must have two different DJ 45s. The one I have in front of me is mono (3:54 printed) / stereo (4:22 printed).

The matrix number of the short mono side is EM 45384A-2CSM.

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Aaron Kannowski
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 12:46pm \| IP Logged

Two different DJ 45 pressings, indeed:

SP = Specialty Records Corporation
CSM = Columbia Santa Maria

My DJ 45 - like Pat's - is a Specialty pressing, and also runs (3:59). Deadwax is (Specialty Records "SRC" logo).....TML-M......EM-45384A-SP

aaronk
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 1:00pm \| IP Logged

I just double-checked the timing of the Columbia Santa Maria pressing, and although that last note is really faint at the end, it definitely runs 4:02.

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Aaron Kannowski
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 3:04pm \| IP Logged

As the Everly Brothers would say....Problems, Problems, Problems all day long.

Todd Ireland
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 5:39pm \| IP Logged

So can anyone tell if the difference between the Andrew Gold "Lonely Boy" promo 45s due to speed or strictly length?

Edited by Todd Ireland on 24 September 2012 at 5:40pm

aaronk
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 8:24pm \| IP Logged

If anyone who has a Specialty pressing would like to compare with my copy, please let me know. The final drum hit on the Columbia pressing occurs at exactly 3:47. From that point to the last bit of audio I can hear is 15.3 seconds. The copy I have is practically in mint condition with minimal surface noise and hardly any crackle, which is probably the only reason I can tell where the tail end of the fade is. It's really, really low, and I was using headphones to hear the exact end.

Edited by aaronk on 24 September 2012 at 8:25pm

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Aaron Kannowski
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 9:26am \| IP Logged

Last drum hit is at 3:47 of my Specialty pressing also.

aaronk
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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:56am \| IP Logged

Pat, it appears that the Specialty pressing must have just faded the tail end a couple seconds early. It may or may not be worth noting in the database--your call.

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MMathews
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 12:21am \| IP Logged

I have a question regarding the commercial 45 version of
"Lonely Boy".

Is the commercial 45 the same mix as the LP version?

I ask because the Rhino HAND version running 3:59 is a
complete remix from the LP version. All the elements
sound very different, right from the intro - the piano on
the LP is centered, and cowbell is on the left.
On HAND, the piano comes in hard-left, and the cowbell is
on the right. Everything else is different too - the LP
has reverb in his vocal and the HAND short version has
echo on his vocal.
I had thought this was DJ-45 edit/remix, but according to
the notes above, this shorter DJ edit was only in mono on
the 45's.

So i now wonder was the remix on vinyl at all, or did the
remix first appear on this Rhino CD?

Thanks for any help.
MM

Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 7:29am \| IP Logged

Nice catch, Mark! The stereo long side of the Specialty-pressed DJ 45 and my PRC-pressed commercial 45 match your description of the LP version mix (which I don't have to compare.) Piano centered at the start, cowbell left... they're definitely different from the HAND mix.

I'm a bit confused about your other statement: "the LP has reverb in his vocal and the HAND short version has echo on his vocal." Unless "reverb" and "echo" are mutually-exclusive terms, I suspect you meant "no echo" for the HAND vocal, because I'm not hearing any on that mix.

AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 7:45am \| IP Logged

To Mark Mathews:

Yah Shure kinda beat me to it, but my commercial 45 is the same version/mix as my vinyl LP.

The HAND version is extremely similar (when folded into mono) to the mono promo short 45 (such as the louder-than-LP string synthesizer breaks).

I seem to recall hearing the short promo 45 mix in stereo when this was a hit on FM, so I suspect there is a second 45 promo. But I also believe SOME commercial 45s were the short promo mix in STEREO (like the HAND version). Please note this paragraph is totally memory/conjecture on my part and may be dead wrong...

Andy

Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 8:11am \| IP Logged

Andy, I think you're onto something about the short mono DJ 45 sounding closer to a fold of the HAND mix. In comparing the short mono DJ 45 with a fold of the stereo commercial 45, it appears the mono DJ isn't a straight fold of the stereo mix. During the word "the" in the line "in the summer of '53, his mother brought him a sister...", there's a quick, loud guitar sound. On the stereo 45 fold, it's noticeably louder than the music surrounding it and has obvious trailing reverb. On the mono DJ, it isn't any louder than its surrounding turf, and there's no obvious trailing reverb. When folded down, the HAND mix sounds closer to the short mono DJ 45 mix at that same spot.

As to the existence of a short stereo DJ 45 or short stereo commercial 45, anything's possible, but I've never seen any instance of either. Of the five PRC copies I pulled from stock at the distributorship I worked for at the time (three in picture sleeves, two in standard factory sleeves) all are the long stereo version. My college station was never serviced anything other than the short mono/long stereo DJ 45, and the local WEA branch office didn't have any other variations in their promo inventory.

Edited by Yah Shure on 24 April 2013 at 8:22am

EdisonLite
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 9:20am \| IP Logged

From all of the above, with many people having copies of the dj 45 (and some people with multiple copies), my GUESS is:

1) there is no stereo short version on dj 45 (or commercial 45) (It just seems like one of us would have it), and therefore ...
2) the Rhino CD is the 1st time this short stereo mix appeared anywhere (outside the vaults of Warner/Elektra/Asylum), but ...
3) that this stereo short version was created in 1977 and not in the '90s when Rhino released this CD. I think it was created in 1977 not just because Rhino wouldn't do a new mix of this in the '90s but also because people are saying the fold down of this stereo mix sounds like the mono dj 45.

Can anyone else who has a dj 45 report if theirs is stereo & short?

Also, Mark, in your opinion does this short mix sound significantly improved over the common mix or just randomly different? Because if it's improved, I might just edit the two versions, inserting the "missing bridge part" from the album version into the single version. (Isn't that all that's missing from the short single version? I believe that was the case for "Thank You For Being a Friend" but can't recall on "Lonely Boy".)

AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 11:34am \| IP Logged

To EdisonLite:

I feel the promo remix/HAND mix is significantly improved because I hate the wimpiness of the (ARP?) string synthesizer break on the commercial 45/LP. I'm not sure if on the short mix it's just louder, more trebly, or if there's an additional overdub, but it's more in-your-face.

Best of luck editing the two together because there are other mix differences & pans, too.

I'm interested to hear Mark's take on this, too.

Andy

sriv94
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 3:00pm \| IP Logged

EdisonLite wrote:

Because if it's improved, I might just edit the two versions, inserting the "missing bridge part" from the album version into the single version. (Isn't that all that's missing from the short single version?)

No, there's an edit at the end of the long 45 as well.

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MMathews
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 3:17pm \| IP Logged

Well, which one's better is subjective, but i can say i
did always like the HAND version as soon as i bought the
CD.   I like the wider separation and everything is very
crisp.
As Andrew hears it, all the elements are cleaner, more
"upfront".

I agree with Gordon about it being supplied by the vault
that way. Bill Inglot stated in interview that his method
was to request a 30ips tape copy of the original master
for each song, and do the digital mastering himself. He
did not trust labels to provide a DAT or any digitized
copy.

And Gordon, Andrew is right, you may have a bear of a
time getting the 2 mixes to play nice together .. all the
effects are so different the sudden change in the middle
may sound bizarre.

For Yah Shure; RE: Reverb vs. Echo. Actually, the 2 terms
are exclusive but it's become commonplace to call reverb
"echo".   I do it too!
The technical difference is that reverberation is the
effect of being in an enclosed large space when a word is
heard, and has a solid "tail" like being in a large
shower room or hall (or big studio of course)...as most
60's hits the vocals have lots of reverb.
(e.g. "Monday, Monday"..lots of reverb)

Echo is where your source is repeated back, either once
or many times fading away, such as on most 50's Sun
records - with Sam Philips legendary board "slap echo".
Like, "Green Tambourine ..listen while i play,play,play"
= echo.

And some songs use both effects.

So on the HAND mix of Lonely Boy, his voice is relatively
dry of reverb, but instead has one repeat of his vocal
echoing behind it.   The LP mix doesn't do that.

Can someone with the mono promo 45 per chance send me an
mp3 of it?   I can simply fold the HAND stereo mix to
mono and A/B them to confirm for sure.

MM

Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 April 2013 at 4:58pm \| IP Logged

Dear Professor Mathews,

Thank you for the informative lecture. That explains why the old song wasn't titled "Little Sir Reverb."

Your Student
-Y.S.

Hey, wait a second... how did you manage to go from talking of glorious 30 ips tape copies to making a request for an mp3 within the same post? Is it too late to ask for a tuition refund? :)

(mono dub is on its way)

Edited by Yah Shure on 24 April 2013 at 5:06pm

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