| Author |
|
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2235
|
| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 7:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
To this day, I still don't know if there's a Part 2 or what it sounds like.
There's not much controversy here, just some mastering info.
LP length, running about 3:24
The oldest CD I own that has the LP length is a mail-order 3-CD set from Motown/Silver Eagle called Motown 30th Anniversary (1988). It sounds like it's from a high-generation source tape, but otherwise sounds OK. It's actually my preferred source for the LP length. (I don't have any of the '80s-era Rick James single-artist discs to compare.)
The version on Priority's Mega-Hits Dance Classics Vol. 7 (1989) sounds dreadful in ways that are hard to describe. Overly mid-rangy EQ? Weird hiss and possibly vinyl artifacts on the fade? In any case, avoid.
The version on Razor & Tie's Those Funky '70s (1990) sounds kinda similar to Motown's 30th, but fades about a second earlier.
The single-artist Ultimate Collection (1997) used low-generation source tapes, but added compression/limiting, a slightly boomy EQ, and noise reduction. Raise the levels 15 dB to listen to the space after the first snare hit, and you'll hear the crackly sound of the digital NR easing up. You won't hear that particular artifact on any of the discs I listed above, including the Priority disc.
PolyGram's Pure Funk Vol. 1 (1998) is a differently EQ'd digital clone of Ultimate Collection.
Realm's 3-CD Ultimate Funk Classics (2002) is a differently EQ'd digital clone of Motown's 30th, but is about 4 dB louder and clips a bit.
Of the discs I listed for the LP length, I prefer Motown 30th Anniversary (1988).
(I should point out that many of the early '80s Motown CDs sound pretty good. Look for discs mastered by John Matousek and you can be assured that there's no extra compression/limiting, no weird EQ, and no digital noise reduction. Source tapes can be hit-and-miss. If Mr. Matousek mastered the '80s-era release of Street Sounds, Greatest Hits, or Reflections, they probably sound pretty good. Please post here if you have any of these and can confirm the mastering credit.)
45 length, running about 3:18
The first time the 45 length appeared on CD was on Motown's 4-CD Hitsville USA Vol. 2 (1993), and it sounds truly spectacular, trouncing everything that came before it. In particular, listen to the snare hits that begin the song - you can hear actual reverb in the space before the rest of the band kicks in. Contrast this with Ultimate Collection or Pure Funk Vol. 1, where the snare hits quickly evaporate to nothingness, with virtually no "air" around them. This is an excellent example of the "breath of life" that they talk about on the Steve Hoffman board. For Hitsville, the great sound comes from using the lowest-generation source tapes, not using any additional compression/limiting, and not using any additional noise reduction. Simple recipe, in principle, but one that's not as common as it should be.
There are a bunch that use the same analog transfer as Hitsville USA Vol. 2:- JCI's Only Dance 1980-1984 (1995; has added compression and smiley-face EQ; avoid at all costs - JCI really botched this one)
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 8 1981 (1995; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 47 '70s Dance Party 1979-1981 (1997; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 25 Early '80s (1999; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul '80s Rhythm And Grooves (2001; differently EQ'd digital clone)
- Rhino's Millennium New Funk Party (2001; digitally exactly 0.477 dB quieter)
- Rhino's 7-CD Like Omigod (2002; too loud and clips a lot)
All of the above sound about as good as Hitsville, except the JCI disc.
The 45 length is also found on the 2-CD import Sampled Vol. 1 (2000), but it doesn't sound as good as Hitsville.
Run time is 3:18 for all the CDs I listed that have the 45 length.
Unsurprisingly, my recommendation for the 45 length is Hitsville USA Vol. 2 (1993).
Edited by crapfromthepast on 23 January 2014 at 8:14pm
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6509
|
| Posted: 24 January 2014 at 6:11am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great job on the analysis, Ron. There is also a longer 12" mix that
extends beyond both the LP and 45 lengths by at least a couple
minutes. Could this be "Part 2"?
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
80smusicfreak
MusicFan
Joined: 14 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: 24 January 2014 at 8:21am | IP Logged
|
|
|
crapfromthepast wrote:
| To this day, I still don't know if there's a Part 2 or what it sounds like. |
|
|
Indeed, there was a "Part II" - and it was actually the B-side of the U.S. 45. I've never owned the 45, so I can't say I've ever heard "Part II" myself; in fact, I just did a cursory search for someone who may have uploaded the B-side of their original 45 onto YouTube, but alas, came up empty. :-( Printed time for "Part I" was (3:18), while the printed time for "Part II" was (3:32); combined, that comes to (6:50). The U.S. 12" version clocked in at (7:05), which is :15 longer than Parts I & II combined (assuming the printed times on the 45 are accurate), so I seriously doubt the 45 is the 12" version broken down into two segments - plus the 12" also had "Part II" w/ the same printed time of (3:32) on its B-side, so if "Part II" was basically just the second half of the 12" version, why would they repeat it there???
What has always made this whole matter w/ "Super Freak" confusing/puzzling to me (and I think many others) is why the LP version on Street Songs was simply "Part I" of the 45 extended by a mere :06 or so; in other words, why wasn't it Parts I & II combined, clocking in at roughly 6:50??? After all, to have such short versions of the first two singles (I'm also referring to "Give it to Me Baby") released off an r&b/dance album during this period was pretty atypical - in fact, the only track on Street Songs to clock in at over five minutes was "Fire and Desire". Very odd...
Quote:
| (I should point out that many of the early '80s Motown CDs sound pretty good. Look for discs mastered by John Matousek and you can be assured that there's no extra compression/limiting, no weird EQ, and no digital noise reduction. Source tapes can be hit-and-miss. If Mr. Matousek mastered the '80s-era release of Street Sounds, Greatest Hits, or Reflections, they probably sound pretty good. Please post here if you have any of these and can confirm the mastering credit.) |
|
|
I bought Reflections on cassette back when it first came out in '84, and by coincidence, I came across a copy on CD only about 6-8 months ago, while out on my record-store travels. It's pretty rare on CD, so needless to say, I didn't hesitate to grab it. Much to my surprise, the one I found is a U.S. pressing; therefore, this copy must've been made circa 1985-86, as it wasn't in print too long beyond that (in any format), and I suspect that earlier Japan-for-U.S. pressings must also exist. Anyway, to answer your question, inside the front booklet it states, "Digitally Compiled by ALLEN ZENTZ - MASTERING, Hollywood, California, U.S.A."...
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MMathews
MusicFan
Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978
|
| Posted: 24 January 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Part 2 was indeed simply the 2nd half of the 12" single.
After the sax break that fades on the 45/LP .. it just goes into a repeating synth riff that does not appear in part one, and alternates with a guitar riff and they just keep chanting "super freak, the girl's a super freak, Yow yow!" ... it's just 3 straight minutes of that.
I too wondered why they chose not to use the entire thing on the album. I should note the 12" is a slightly different mix than the LP/45. Oddly, the beat is more powerful on the 45/LP mix than it is on the 12".
MM
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bellenger1981
MusicFan
Joined: 18 July 2019
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: 06 September 2022 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Isn't the 45 version of "Part 1" of "Super Freak" actually
an edit of the LP version? Using the Motown 30th
Anniversary CD as a guide, isn't the approximate 7 seconds
from 3:06.978 to 3:14.321 removed? Note that the 12"
version is missing this same 7 seconds. I am curious if
"Part 1" of the 45 version is actually just an early fade
of the 12" version. However, Mark mentions that the 12" is
a slightly different mix.
__________________
Jason Bellenger
Byron Center, Michigan, USA
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AdvprosD
MusicFan
Joined: 12 June 2020
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 352
|
| Posted: 06 September 2022 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MMathews wrote:
Part 2 was indeed simply the 2nd half of the 12" single.
After the sax break that fades on the 45/LP .. it just goes into a repeating synth riff that does not appear in part one, and alternates with a guitar riff and they just keep chanting "super freak, the girl's a
super freak, Yow yow!" ... it's just 3 straight minutes of that.
I too wondered why they chose not to use the entire thing on the album. I should note the 12" is a slightly different mix than the LP/45. Oddly, the beat is more powerful on the 45/LP mix than it is on the
12".
MM |
|
|
Well, I'll be! I had long entertained the same question. I guess I need to go out and find this 12" version. I've recently fallen into the "Dance Mix" rabbit hole for lots of songs.
Sadly, we lost Rick in 2004. One of the "Can't fail" summer party songs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG1SsrLWrXw
Edited by AdvprosD on 06 September 2022 at 7:28pm
__________________
<Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2235
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 6:55am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great find, Jason!
There is indeed an edit somewhere in there.
The LP version has Rick's vocal of "Blow, Danny!" (for sax player Daniel LeMelle) at 2:59. There's an ad-libbed vocal of "ow girl" (or something like that) 8 beats after the downbeat following "Blow, Danny!". The ad-libbed vocal repeats 40 beats after the downbeat following "Blow, Danny!", or, equivalently, 32 beats after the first "ow girl".
The 45 version also has "Blow, Danny!" at 2:59. There's an "ow girl" 8 beats after the downbeat following "Blow, Danny!". The ad-libbed vocal repeats 24 beats after the downbeat following "Blow, Danny!", or, equivalently, 16 beats after the first "ow girl".
So, compared to the LP version, 16 beats are cut out of the 45 on the sax part at the end. I didn't figure out where the edit points are.
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6509
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 7:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
It's not only an edit; it's a looped section of music. The part with the "ow girl" is note-for-note identical each time. I was able to get them synched up, and they stay together perfectly, which tells me it's a loop and not just the same piece of music played two different times.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bellenger1981
MusicFan
Joined: 18 July 2019
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 228
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 11:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
You guys have amazing ears. That's why I
figured that I would bring this
observation to the experts. Thanks for the
info.
__________________
Jason Bellenger
Byron Center, Michigan, USA
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2235
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 11:21am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Bellenger1981 wrote:
| You guys have amazing ears. That's why I figured that I would bring this observation to the experts. Thanks for the info. |
|
|
You did the hard work here! Once I knew there was a difference to listen for, it was easy.
Seriously, A+ observation on your part!
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2235
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just determined that the nice-sounding version on Motown 30th Anniversary (1988) is a differently EQ'd digital clone of Greatest Hits (1986).
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vanmeter
MusicFan
Joined: 28 December 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 1:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I could've sworn I read an interview at one point where he (James) discussed accidentally erasing the end of the track on the multitrack while trying to do overdubs by himself and completely freaking out, and his engineer realizing the only way to save the track was to loop the end. Did I dream this or does anybody else recall it? Mix Magazine maybe?
Edited by vanmeter on 07 September 2022 at 1:42pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6509
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
If that's true, it would explain the looped ending.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Brian W.
MusicFan
Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2505
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 4:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Slightly off topic, but my manager at my last job, Lisa
Sarna, was a backup singer for Rick James in the late
'70s and early '80s. One of the "Colored Girls," I think
Rick James called them-- she and Jackie Ruffin. She sang
on "Super Freak" and most of his other songs of the
period. She is actually the "Say whaaaat?" voice on "Give
It to Me Baby."
We're still friends, we still keep in touch. She was
interviewed (briefly) in the Rick James documentary that
aired on HBO or one of those a year or so ago. I always
say "Say whaaaat?" to her, and she laughs.
She also sang backing vocals on Laura Branigan's
"Branigan" album.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1099
|
| Posted: 07 September 2022 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I also notice two difference mixes for this song. I have the 45 version on TL
"Sounds Of The Eighties 1981", and it opens dry, while other versions I've
heard open with reverb on the drums and sound different overall. A 45 on YT
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjPxBbzBKFM) has it without reverb.
Anyone have the LP?
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mjb50
MusicFan
Joined: 28 April 2021
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 306
|
| Posted: 05 December 2023 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well, I'm not hearing dry drums on Sounds of the Eighties: 1981. But the tambourine is another story.
The database has still not been updated to acknowledge that there are 2 mixes or to say which versions are on which CDs.
Some subtle differences I've noticed:
• Tambourine is louder on the 45, and clearly panned slightly left.
• Tambourine reverb is lighter (almost dry) and less spread out on the 45.
• Clap reverb is lighter on the 45.
• Tambourine & clap reverb kinda smear together on the LP; they're more distinct on the 45.
Easier to spot are differences in the vibraslap (spinner-like sound) and flexatone (saw-like bendy sound):
• 1:05, 2:30, 2:38: vibraslap relatively audible on 45 version, very quiet on LP.
• 1:12: vibraslap plainly audible on 45 version, entirely inaudible on LP.
• 1:23, 2:16, 2:23: vibraslap mono on 45 version, wide stereo on LP version.
• 0:27, 1:28, 1:38, 1:47, 1:54, 1:58, 2:05, 2:19, 2:58: flexatone mostly mono on 45 version, wide stereo/right-panned on LP version.
(As these times get higher, they may be off by 1 second or more due to speed differences.)
If you're wanting to check very quickly, just skip to 1:12, right after "hey hey, hey, HEY!", and if you can hear the vibraslap (spinny noise), it's the 45 version.
Also, in the 45 version, at least on the CD masterings I have, at about 3:12, there's two momentary dropouts of the sax in left channel, so it sounds like the sax pans to the right for a split-second.
And then there's the already noted, very easy to spot edit near the end: at about 3:08.5 on the LP version, there's no "ow, girl", whereas the 45 has that ad-lib, because the 45 mix cuts out 7.3s starting at this point (right before the sax's high note, I believe).
Edited by mjb50 on 05 December 2023 at 1:13pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Rick James - Super Freak (Part 1)
